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Cal Brown’s posts about swim training have occasionally gotten under my skin. So I invited him onto The Swim Brief to explore the experiences behind his message—and where we actually disagree.

We talk about training volume, recovery days that aren’t really recovery, and what strength coaches hear from athletes that swim coaches might miss. Cal explains how he and his brother approach athletic development at Aqua Strength Performance, from mobility and jumping to leaving something in the tank.

But the heart of this conversation is why athletes keep showing up: having somewhere they can be themselves, feel understood, and talk honestly about what they’re going through. Along the way, I confront how much my own training resembles the approach I sometimes find myself criticizing.

Find Cal on Instagram: @calbrownfit.

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Juliet Suess returns for the second half of our Ted Lasso conversation, exploring who gets the freedom to coach differently—and who still has to prove they belong.

We dig into Alice Chilton’s development, disagree over Ted’s handling of her suspension, and consider what her promotion reveals about opportunity in coaching. Ted’s decision to step back opens a broader conversation about head coaches, assistants, and whether flexibility is something everyone deserves or a privilege reserved for the person in charge.

We also discuss competing without surrendering your life outside sport as well as recapping our favorite moments from the season and series.

Spoilers throughout for Ted Lasso season four.

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You can’t wait until championships to teach swimmers how to handle championships.

Wisconsin head coach Dr. Jack Brown joins Chris DeSantis to discuss why mental skills deserve the same deliberate practice as physical ones. Drawing on his own struggles as an elite swimmer, Jack explains why “just focus” often fails, how coaches accidentally amplify performance anxiety, and when goals stop helping athletes and start getting in their way.

They also explore Jack’s transition into head coaching, a disagreement over the development of elite female swimmers, and what it takes to build a coaching culture where commitment to winning can coexist with commitment to family.

Jack’s book, The Six Questions, is available on Amazon.

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Milo Cavic looks back at his younger self and sees an athlete he wouldn’t necessarily enjoy coaching: self-centered, fiercely invested in success, and determined to learn things the hard way.

The Olympic medalist joins Chris to discuss how he understands that athlete differently today, what he needed from Dave Salo and Mike Bottom, and why believing in your training matters. He explains why his own late-career coaching change makes him sympathetic to athletes who choose to leave successful environments.

They also discuss the balance between strong training partners and individual attention, why practice times can become an emotional trap, and the tension between team coaches and outside specialists. Milo shares how he approaches that relationship through Swim with Milo—and Chris offers his perspective on how coaches value their work.

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Tracy Slusser has coached three NCAA championship teams. She has also experienced a coaching culture that made having children feel incompatible with doing the job at the highest level.

We talk about the expectations she absorbed early in her career, what happened when a fellow coach brought her child onto the deck at Nationals, and the changes Tracy wants to see—from emergency deck passes to better coverage when coaches take leave.

Today, Tracy works with coaches on leadership, confidence, and the skills needed to build a career they can sustain. We close on a question that connects her past work to what she does now: when coaches want to perform at the highest level, who helps them get better?

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What is a developmental coach actually trying to finish?

Longhorn Aquatics head coach Mike Laitala joins Chris DeSantis to discuss why producing fast young swimmers is not the same as preparing athletes for long-term success. They explore the risks of early specialization, the difference between developing strength and simply “lifting,” and why athletes can advance beyond their own developmental awareness.

Mike also explains how he prepares swimmers for college, another coach, and eventually the ability to direct their own careers. The goal isn’t to exhaust every tool available—it’s to build the foundation athletes will need for whatever comes next.

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Jack Roach has spent a lifetime learning from coaches—and helping coaches and athletes learn from one another.

In this conversation, Jack reflects on his time leading USA Swimming’s National Junior Team, where he helped create developmental experiences that connected young swimmers with senior athletes and brought coaches into a broader web of relationships. But his philosophy extends well beyond any particular program: coaches shouldn’t simply provide answers. Their job is to ask questions, deepen awareness and help reveal the wisdom already developing within the athlete.

We discuss purpose, autonomy, the difference between being unable and unwilling, admitting weakness as a coach, and why genuinely caring about someone sometimes requires walking directly into difficult conversations. Jack also shares lessons from Eddie Reese and his longtime mentor, Jon Urbanchek—including one question that has stayed with him: How much are you willing to care?

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What makes swimmers want to keep showing up—not because an attendance policy requires it, but because they genuinely want to be there?

Jonathan Kaplan, head coach and director of SwimRVA, joins Chris to discuss a collaborative approach to coaching built around athlete ownership. Jonathan explains why he has never used an attendance policy, how coaches can teach swimmers to manage the psychological demands of practice, and what happens when an athlete’s entire identity becomes tied to results.

They also explore confidence without false modesty, the damage created by praising outcomes while ignoring the process, and why much of championship-meet coaching becomes an attempt to undo lessons athletes learned when they were younger.

Jonathan then shares how SwimRVA was designed around the needs of its community—removing barriers while creating space for everyone from seasonal participants to nationally competitive swimmers—and why good leadership requires enough confidence to question your own ideas.

The result is not a rejection of performance. It is a different path toward it: build better people, give swimmers meaningful ownership, and create a program they don’t want to leave.