Former NASA astronaut Charlie Camarda reveals the leadership mistake that can turn a warning sign into a catastrophe: smart people convincing themselves they already understand the problem. If you lead in a high-stakes environment, this conversation will change how you think about decision-making, dissent, and psychological safety. Michelle Johnston sits down with Charlie to unpack the seismic shifts that shaped his career, from NASA research centers to the Columbia disaster and beyond. What started as a deep technical career in hypersonic flight became a mission to understand why brilliant organizations make dangerous calls, and how to build teams that catch failure before it becomes irreversible.

Charlie shares the hard-won lessons behind Mission Out of Control, including why NASA’s recovery windows were missed for years, how bad analysis can create false confidence, and why speaking up can be career-threatening even when you’re right. He also explains how his team helped create a repair capability for shuttle damage and how that same mindset could transform industries far beyond aerospace.This episode is especially valuable for leaders, engineers, founders, safety professionals, and anyone responsible for decisions where being wrong is not an option. If you want to build teams that challenge assumptions, surface dissent, and make better calls under pressure, this one belongs at the top of your queue.

CHAPTERS
00:11 Introduction to Charlie Camarda and seismic shifts
01:04 Columbia and NASA's Culture
01:16 The Columbia accident and its impact on Charlie
02:13 Analyzing decision-making failures at NASA
03:59 The importance of technical rigor and analysis
04:41 Recovery Windows and Psychological Safety
06:08 Confirmatory vs. exploratory decision modes
07:20 Psychological safety and organizational culture
08:36 Challenger's Real Root Cause
09:31 The Challenger disaster and decision-making culture
11:38 The Columbia foam strike and recovery window
12:32 EPIC and High-Performing Teams
13:50 The Epic education program for solving complex problems
14:54 Mission Out of Control
15:55 Mission Out of Control: organizational culture and safety
18:58 NASA's safety culture and Charlie’s courageous voice
19:48 Speaking Up at NASA
21:08 Silencing and listening in high-stakes organizations
22:08 NASA’s ongoing culture challenges and Charlie’s advocacy
22:41 Artemis and Heat Shield Risks
24:14 The Artemis missions and transparency issues
26:29 Lessons on decision-making and risk management in space
28:28 Leadership: Listen to Dissent
30:01 The Legacy of Safer Organizations
32:14 A Critical Decision in Space
33:33 The overview effect and critical in-space decisions
35:15 The importance of leadership and listening in space missions
36:09 Final thoughts: culture, safety, and seismic shifts
36:22 Navigating NASA's Challenges

Special thanks to our friend Brian Wayy for the theme music this season!
Track Title: My Heart's On Fire

Follow Michelle for more inspiring content:

Watch the podcast on YouTube: / @theseismicshiftwithmichelle
LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/michelle-johnston-0264b5b
Instagram: instagram.com/michellekjohnston
Website: https://michellekjohnston.com/

Communication and connection are very different. With communication, it is transactional, getting information from A to B. Connection, on the other hand, is a shared experience. When interacting, do your people feel seen, heard, valued, appreciated?

2022 Publisher of the Year and the President and Publisher of The Advocate and Times-Picayune, Judi Terzotis epitomizes servant leadership. In this episode, Michelle and Judi explain that by building a positive listening environment and disrupting the status quo, we can create a positive workplace where people feel connected.

You can pickup a copy of Michelle Johnston's newest book, The Seismic Shift, on her website: https://michellekjohnston.com

New Orleans isn’t just hosting the Super Bowl—it’s creating an experience like no other. In our second Super Bowl episode of the week, Michelle welcomes Sandra Lindquist, CEO of the New Orleans Chamber of Commerce, to talk about what makes New Orleans "built to host." The conversation touches on the city’s unique ability to bring people together, the impact of small businesses, and the spirit of resilience following recent challenges.

Sandra opens the conversation by sharing her journey to leading the Chamber, the explosive growth of the business community, and how the city is preparing for the economic boom that comes with the Super Bowl. The two also explore the magic of New Orleans—the vibrant culture, the immersive experience for visitors, and the way businesses organically rally around major events.

Whether you have a ticket to the big game or not, this conversation will give you just a taste of the energy happening this week in New Orleans.
Learn more about Sandra and her role with the New Orleans Chamber of Commerce on their website: https://www.neworleanschamber.org/.

CHAPTERS:

00:00 Welcome & Introduction
01:44 Reflecting on Recent Tragedies & the City's Resilience
04:02 The Sugar Bowl & New Orleans' Unbreakable Spirit
06:47 Sandra Lindquist’s Journey to CEO of the Chamber
09:22 The Power of Small Businesses in New Orleans
12:26 Why New Orleans is Built to Host the Super Bowl
15:04 The Walkability & Cultural Experience of the City
19:15 The Taylor Swift Effect & Creating a Super Bowl Atmosphere
23:48 The Half-Billion Dollar Economic Impact of the Super Bowl
27:04 Why You Should Experience the Super Bowl in New Orleans

Special thanks to our friend Brian Wayy for the theme music this season!
Track Title: My Hearts On Fire