Got questions or comments? Text them to me!

In this powerful and honest conversation, Paul sits down with Christa Cordova, a mental health educator and fellow doctoral student, to talk about something many believers quietly carry — spiritual hurt and church trauma.

Christa has walked the road herself, serving in both church and parachurch roles that left deep scars. Now, she uses her experience and training in Critical Incident Stress Management to help others heal, discern what they’ve experienced, and rebuild a healthy, whole faith.

Together, Paul and Christa unpack what spiritual abuse really means (and doesn’t mean), how to spot the difference between being hurt by church and being abused by church, and how pastors and leaders can cultivate safe, trauma-sensitive spaces that honor both truth and healing.

They also talk about:

• Why awareness and self-reflection are vital for healthy leadership
• The concept of the “bell sheep” — a beautiful image of spiritual leadership that follows the Shepherd closely
• The Japanese art of Kintsugi and how it pictures God’s work of turning brokenness into beauty
• How churches can take practical steps toward being places of refuge rather than harm
• The courage it takes to come back to church after being wounded

Christa offers tangible advice for pastors and church leaders, including the value of the 988 Crisis Hotline, why every church would benefit from having a trauma-trained leader, and how building a network of local therapists can transform pastoral care.

Whether you’re a pastor trying to lead with compassion, or someone still healing from spiritual wounds, this conversation will remind you that Jesus meets us in our scars — not in our perfection.

Resources Mentioned:

• A Church Called Tov by Scot McKnight & Laura Barringer
• When the Church Harms God’s People by Diane Langberg
• The Wounded Healer by Henri Nouwen
• National Crisis Hotline: 988

Connect with Christa:
👉 christacordova.com

⬇️ ⬇️ ⬇️ ⬇️ ⬇️

Thanks for listening to The Reluctant Leader Podcast with Paul Jenkins! Find me on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram, and be sure to read the stuff I'm writing on my blog.

Rather watch the video? Head over to The Reluctant Leader Podcast on my YouTube channel.

Got questions or comments? Text them to me!

What do you do when the place that was supposed to heal you is the place that hurt you?

In this honest and hope-filled conversation, Paul sits down with Sarah Holstra – pastoral counselor and self-described “boundary coach” – to talk about the messy but holy work of relational repair.

They cover:

• What a “boundary coach” actually does (and why you probably need one)
• Why most church hurt is more about relationships than leadership
• How to walk with people who have been wounded by the church – without piling on shame
• The crucial gap between what we expect and what we experience – and how to fill it with trust instead of suspicion

This episode will encourage pastors, leaders, and anyone longing to re-engage with community after pain. Sarah reminds us that healing is possible, relational repair is holy work, and God is still writing better stories for us than the ones our pain has been telling.

Links & Resources:

• Sarah Halstra – Love Your Story Therapy
• Holy Hurt by Hillary McBride
• Connect with Sarah on Instagram: @emotionalsupportpastor
• SarahHolstra.com

⬇️ ⬇️ ⬇️ ⬇️ ⬇️

Thanks for listening to The Reluctant Leader Podcast with Paul Jenkins! Find me on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram, and be sure to read the stuff I'm writing on my blog.

Rather watch the video? Head over to The Reluctant Leader Podcast on my YouTube channel.

Got questions or comments? Text them to me!

Episode Summary:
In a culture that’s always chasing the next new thing, why are so many young people drawn to what feels ancient, rooted, and steady? In this episode, Paul explores how the ancient paths (Jeremiah 6:16), the old wells (Genesis 26:18–33), and the deep roots of old trees point to the surprising attractiveness of tradition. Whether your church is 200 years old or just a teenager, this conversation will encourage you to rediscover the treasures that give stability, refreshment, and depth to the next generation.

What You’ll Learn in This Episode:

• Why younger generations are drawn to tradition in a world of constant change.
• How Jeremiah’s “ancient paths” offer wisdom for today’s church.
• What Isaac teaches us about “re-digging the wells” of spiritual life.
• Why the stability of older churches matters in an unstable world.
• Practical ways younger or non-traditional churches can tap into ancient practices without losing their vibrancy.

Practical Takeaways for Non-Traditional Churches:

• Introduce rhythms of Scripture reading, prayer, or creeds.
• Teach church history alongside the Bible to anchor people in the bigger story.
• Be intentional with communion, fasting, and prayer gatherings as deep wells of grace.
• Offer consistency in leadership and discipleship that builds stability over time.

Key Quote:

Resources & Links:

• Jeremiah 6:16
• Genesis 26:18–33
• Want to dig deeper? Visit pauljenkins.tv

⬇️ ⬇️ ⬇️ ⬇️ ⬇️

Thanks for listening to The Reluctant Leader Podcast with Paul Jenkins! Find me on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram, and be sure to read the stuff I'm writing on my blog.

Rather watch the video? Head over to The Reluctant Leader Podcast on my YouTube channel.