Aaron Francis joins The Panel this week to talk about entrepreneurship, programming, and parenting. We chatted about how personal experiences shape our business journeys, the evolution of programming tools, and the importance of identifying market signals for success.

Timestamps:

• (00:16) - Aaron Francis joins The Panel
• (02:06) - How we're teaching our kids about programming?
• (09:36) - The gap between AI code and design
• (16:04) - How much AI are we using to write newsletters?
• (20:22) - The web feels like it's back
• (21:26) - Signals your business is working
• (43:47) - Navigating when to pivot
• (52:56) - What would you say to grade 12 class?
• (01:12:26) - How to decide what product to work on next
• (01:22:12) - Recording live streams of working sessions
• (01:35:35) - Worrying about ideal customers vs just trying stuff

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Links mentioned in this episode

• Mostly Technical
• Aaron Francis
• Ian Landsman
• Dancing Without A Partner – Signal v. Noise
• Paper – design, share, ship
• Newsletter - Aaron Francis
• Phil Vischer - Wikipedia
• ThePrimeagen - YouTube

Justin is impressed with V0's ability to build working prototypes quickly. We've also got Sora 2 thoughts. And... what should we teach our kids when AI makes everything easy? Brian launches Agent OS v2. Could either of us survive without the internet for more than a day?

Timestamps:

• (00:00) - This can be the show
• (00:20) - Prototyping Transistor's episode creation UI in v0
• (05:39) - Who would be working on this kind of project at Transistor?
• (12:55) - Our thoughts on Sora 2
• (21:00) - How will we be able to tell what's human creations vs AI?
• (31:40) - Are kids growing up being too dependant on AI?
• (49:30) - What motivates us is different for each person
• (56:42) - Is building in AI the key to revenue?
• (01:02:10) - How has the launch of AgentOS v2 going?
• (01:06:47) - Customers pulling vs pushing to customers
• (01:09:55) - Brian's thinknig around content for pro members
• (01:16:15) - Could we survive in a cabin in the woods without internet?

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Links mentioned in this episode

• Sora by ChatGPT
• 0xFramer on X
• Cheeky Pint: Des Traynor on Intercom (transcript at 35m15s)
• Mind the Game Podcast
• Tony Dinh: Oct 2025 Updates - Code, Money, and Travel
• TypingMind - LLM Frontend Chat UI
• Agent OS - AI Coding Agents System
• Spec-Driven Development Workshop
• Mostly Technical: Vision Quest
• Justin Jackson: 2017 Year in Review
• Alex Duggleby on AI and Junior Developers

Justin Jackson and Brian Casel discuss the evolving landscape of entrepreneurship, particularly in the context of AI's impact on product development, creativity, and the job market. They explore the importance of having a clear vision when using AI tools, the challenges faced by junior developers, and the enduring need for human connection in art and media. The discussion also touches on the future of work, the role of AI in enhancing productivity, and the implications for artists and creators in a rapidly changing environment.

Timestamps:

• (01:48) - Vibe coding a marketing tool for Transistor
• (11:23) - Coding with AI vs designing with AI
• (18:35) - Is vibe coding a playground or for serious development work?
• (24:57) - Negativity around AI and building
• (46:24) - Artists and AI
• (01:00:36) - Will we ever go back to the social days of Twitter
• (01:08:34) - What are your Q4 goals? Do you think about end of the year business planning?
• (01:31:27) - The importance of telling people what you're doing
• (01:42:53) - The benefits of a long career

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Links mentioned in this episode

• v0 by Vercel
• Dribbble
• Balsamiq
• Big Tech Told Kids to Code. The Jobs Didn’t Follow. - The New York Times
• Aaron Francis on X
• The Last Days Of Social Media
• Stratechery by Ben Thompson
• Dithering
• Agent OS

Justin vibe-coded an app 5 minutes before recording this episode. Justin and the Transistor team just got back from Banff for their annual company retreat. How do these retreats actually work? What are they good for? Brian has some pretty good signups for Builder Methods Pro memberships! (How can he keep that momentum going?) He's also juggling Agent OS customer support.

Timestamps:

• (00:00) - Intro
• (00:21) - Justin's been vibe coding again
• (02:11) - Transistor's company retreat
• (14:48) - The benefits of hiring a photographer for team retreats
• (21:56) - Laying out the vision for Transistor
• (25:23) - An easy way to tell how often you're shipping new features
• (34:45) - Builder Methods workshop update
• (41:31) - Selling annual subscriptions
• (46:40) - The mixture of feelings around launching
• (48:52) - The struggle of dealing with inbound messages
• (54:47) - Figuring out how to help teams as well as individuals
• (57:54) - What do Justin and Jon want next?
• (01:16:08) - Should we think about our competitors?
• (01:31:44) - Vibe coding vs AI assistant in the code

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Links mentioned in this episode

• Justin's vibe-code app: Segments – Podcast recording timer
• Justin's app demo video
• Town of Canmore
• Chris Enns: podcast editor
• Build Your SaaS | An update from Justin and Jon
• What's Next? with Brian Casel
• Claude Code | Claude
• Fast and reliable end-to-end testing for modern web apps | Playwright

We're joined by Ian Landsman, from the Mostly Technical podcast, joins us to chat about Outro.fm and Helpspot. We talk digital fatigue, the challenges of maintaining an online presence, the importance of building a community around shared interests, finding the right audience, and balancing personal goals with business objectives. As Brian⁩ prepares to launch Builder Methods Pro, we debate the value of community feedback and the potential for unforeseen opportunities in creating content online. Ian talks with us about the development of Outro.fm as an all-in-one solution for podcasters, the importance of building a membership community, the production side of podcasting tools, and the challenges faced in the podcasting market. Also: the difference between one-time sale products (courses) and SaaS.

Timestamps:

• (00:06) - The pre-show is the show
• (00:23) - Quitting Twitter
• (06:19) - Redesigning his website with AI
• (07:53) - Deciding on what a channel is for
• (13:59) - Chasing views and likes
• (20:58) - What are we up to this week
• (29:36) - Why subscription and community vs team training and consulting
• (50:32) - What should the premium content be for day one?
• (57:08) - What is Outro.fm?
• (01:15:04) - Who are Outro.fm's competition?
• (01:21:47) - Selling sponsorships for podcasts as a product
• (01:25:43) - The bet on how much revenue you'll get from your work
• (01:43:59) - Step 1: Become famous

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Links mentioned in this episode

• Ian Landsman
• A Smart Bear
• Builder Methods | Training for AI-first software developers
• Outro.fm
• Mostly Technical Member Site | Outro
• The Podcast Website Builder | Podpage
• Luma · Delightful Events Start Here
• The Changelog podcast
• Syntax - Web Development Podcast
• Help desk software for effortless email support

Brian is wondering: how do you manage a popular open source project? Justin went to Toronto and introduced his son to Adam Wathan, Wes Bos, Steve Schoger, and Caleb Porzio. Why does the same amount of effort produce wildly different results? And... is everyone getting tired of all this copycat content that's optimized for algorithms?

Timestamps:

• (00:20) - Preview of what we're going to talk about
• (02:11) - Builder Methods Pro and AgentOS
• (03:58) - The importance of human content in an age of algorithmic feeds
• (25:55) - Connecting with people in real life
• (33:52) - Zeroing in on Builder Methods revenue
• (48:25) - Managing an open source project in public
• (59:22) - The importance of enthusiasm in projects
• (01:12:21) - Effort and outcome

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Links mentioned in this episode

• Sam Sulek YouTube Channel
• Builder Methods Workshop
• Justin’s Toronto Hangout
• Marketing is a Transfer of Enthusiasm
• Agent OS GitHub Project
• Open Source Contribution Guidelines (Litestream)
• 37signals Book Royalties Revenue
• Effort vs Outcome Blog Post
• 1,000 True Fans
• Omarchy 2.0
• Wes Bos
• Downie - YouTube Video Downloader for macOS

Justin's been using Stripe Sigma to learn a lot more about the history of revenue at Transistor. He had a phone call with Jason Cohen about how to get what you want out of your business. And Brian talks through the same frameworks to figure out what might work best for Builder Methods including exploration of courses, cohorts, community, and more.

Timestamps:

• (00:06) - We're back!
• (00:59) - Brian's healthcare journey
• (09:36) - Deep dive into Stripe Sigma and Transistor's history
• (37:38) - Asking yourself the hard questions about your business
• (42:12) - The value of taking a win now
• (57:29) - What does Brian want with BuilderMethods
• (01:14:35) - Rob Snyder's Pull framework
• (01:30:48) - Can you do community well without the time commitment?
• (01:35:17) - Cohort vs courses
• (01:57:23) - How long is a long podcast episode?

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Links mentioned in this episode

• Jason Cohen: About the author
• Mostly Technical
• ChartMogul | CRM & Subscription Analytics built for B2B SaaS growth
• Message from Paddle
• Kit: Email-First Operating System for Creators (formerly ConvertKit)
• Build Your SaaS | The “charge more” debate
• Average Podcast Downloads: Podcast Measurement and Growth
• Finding Fulfillment
• Agent OS | A free open-source system to train smart AI coding agents
• The PULL framework - by Rob Snyder
• Jay Clouse - Creator Science
• Learn Laravel | Laracasts
• Wes Bos
• Learn Ruby on Rails | GoRails

Justin is wondering whether AI customer support is worth it. Brian is navigating the emotional rollercoaster of YouTube. He's wondering whether he should pursue sponsorships as a revenue stream. Brian introduces Agent OS, a new development tool designed to streamline coding processes when working with AI tooling (which got a big reaction during the live stream).

Timestamps:

• (00:33) - Justin's experiment with AI support chat bots
• (15:20) - Do you want AI writing your responses?
• (19:06) - Trying to figure out why Brian's latest video didn't work as well
• (26:35) - How important is it to keep publishing every week?
• (30:56) - Thinking sponsorship vs products
• (45:36) - The value of community
• (56:23) - What is Agent OS?
• (01:05:00) - Should Agent OS be free?

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Links mentioned in this episode

• Bento
• Transistor’s new customer service page
• Agent OS
• Agent OS on GitHub
• Brian’s YouTube
• Colin and Samir interview by Jay Clouse
• Colin and Samir
• Jay Clouse’s revenue breakdown
• Wes Bos
• Syntax.fm