We’re joined by Aaron Francis who shares his experience after joining Laravel, Laravel's evolution, marketing strategies, and the future of cloud computing. How is Jev changing the cost and way we use LLMs. And what is the future of education and training on the web?

Timestamps:
00:00 - Intro
03:03 - Aaron's Laracon reveal and why he took the job
09:03 - Open source roots, cloud money, and VC-scale growth
14:58 - Who Laravel Cloud is actually built for
19:07 - Taylor's "best in category" tweet, unpacked
22:52 - Ambition and care beat chasing every feature
27:02 - Founders need a point of view, not just a new tool
31:46 - PHP's culture keep Laravel grounded
35:25 - Justin's Vegas Retreat
45:10 - Introducing Jev, and how it's different from an LLM
58:23 - Rosie, ChatGPT Live, and whether full-stack agents are any good
62:16 - "Eat the pain" for your customers as a strategy
77:41 - Aaron's Astra 3D office walkthrough demo
81:11 - Are courses dead? Where dev education goes next

YOU ARE THE PANEL – send us your thoughts 🗣️

🎤 Send us an audio or video message

📧 Email us: panelpodcastshow@gmail.com

📺 Leave a comment on YouTube

🦋 Reply on Bluesky

Links mentioned in this episode:

• Jev announcement post
• Syntax: WTF is Jev?
• Aaron's product - Solo
• Aaron's 3D modeling with Astra
• 90s PC game: Incredible Machine
• New Builder Methods page
• Aaron Francis
• Introducing GPT-Live | OpenAI
• TypeSafe AI
• Free AI Voice Generator & Voice Agents Platform | ElevenLabs
• Compare AI Models: Pricing, Context & Benchmarks | OpenRouter

Justin Jackson, Brian Casel, and Jordan Gal to dissect Jason Cohen's latest skills, particularly the 'Find Your Carol' AI exercise that reveals how customers truly perceive a business. The trio debates aggressive growth experiments versus refining existing funnels, analyzing why street interviews might outperform traditional UGC ads for prospecting. They also tackle the strategic decision of whether to keep product features bundled or spin them off into separate brands, while reflecting on the changing landscape of SaaS valuations and the challenges of maintaining energy as a solo founder.

Chapters:

• (00:10) - Welcome and Introduction
• (00:30) - Jason Cohen's Hidden Multipliers
• (06:46) - Growth Experiment Mode
• (11:06) - New Ad Formats and Street Interviews
• (20:05) - Unconventional Marketing Strategies
• (38:23) - Low Energy and Company of One
• (45:45) - Building Systems with AI Agents
• (59:45) - Twitter Story and Workshop Updates
• (01:10:13) - Spots.fm Marketplace Strategy
• (01:22:09) - Buying vs Selling a Business
• (01:31:33) - Separate Brands for Different Markets
• (01:38:01) - Diversification and Exit Multiples
• (01:41:11) - ARR vs EBITDA Valuation
• (01:44:30) - Closing and Feedback

Mentioned in this episode:

• Hidden Multipliers: Jumpstart Growth With Your Existing Budget and Team by Jason Cohen
• Find Your Carol | Skills from A Smart Bear
• Come to Charleston AI for all of your AI needs (r/TrueAnon)
• OrbanAI — AI agents that run inside your systems
• Tim Aton (@Tim_Aton) on X
• Company Of One: Why Staying Small Is the Next Big Thing for Business by Paul Jarvis
• Andrew Warner (@AndrewWarner) on X
• What Are Orbs? - Amp
• Spots.fm — Sponsor independent creators
• Kit: The Platform for Creators

Jordan says you need to have patience and urgency. Justin says, "focus on the little red box that creates results." Brian is thinking strategically about courses vs. downloadable products.

Chapters:

• (00:10) - Welcome to The Panel
• (01:18) - Summer Ending and Fall Rush
• (04:28) - Motivation and Dissatisfaction
• (09:40) - Revenue Goal of One Million
• (12:54) - Patient Urgency Concept
• (21:11) - Focus on What Actually Matters
• (28:45) - Growing a Company of One
• (35:33) - Hiring for Customer Success
• (39:11) - Courses Versus Software Products
• (46:28) - Doing the Hardest Thing
• (57:57) - Personal Connections in Marketing
• (01:14:16) - Competitor Collapse and Lessons
• (01:19:32) - Brian's Product Strategy

Mentioned in this episode:

• "I want $100 million"
• "You can make it complicated, or you can hit the golf ball."
• Justin's episode: "Don't over-engineer it"
• Justin's drawing: "Focus on what matters (the little red box)"
• Ryan Carson: "How I manage 15 AI agents 24/7 as a solo founder"
• Brian's Mimeo product
• "When you bundle too much in your product, your positioning becomes vague"
• Freshbooks CEO started a secret company to compete with his existing product