00:00 Opening Perspective
00:37 Meet Mary Knysh
03:33 What Is Music for People
06:32 Presence Over Performance
10:52 40th Anniversary of Music for People
14:40 Music Came Before Language
18:46 Sound as the Language of the Soul
24:33 Culture vs Nature and Music
32:06 Awe and Neuroplasticity
36:55 Mary's Listening Tree Framework
42:57 Heart Note and Coherence
48:40 Invitation to Join Art of Improvisation (AOI)
52:34 Healing Through Improvisation
59:18 David Darlings Legacy and Where to Find Us

Dr. Michael DeMaria welcomes internationally recognized music educator and facilitator Mary Knysh for a heartfelt conversation about Music for People, improvisation, deep listening, creativity, and reconnecting with music as an innate part of being human. Mary shares how her journey with David Darling’s work led to decades of teaching and creating safe, welcoming spaces where anyone—musician or not—can discover their sound.

This episode honors the 40th anniversary of Music for People and explores David Darling’s legacy which has deeply impacted Michael and Mary's life, the power of musical play, sound as communication, community-building, neuroplasticity, and the upcoming week long Art of Improvisation (AOI) gathering at Hamilton College in Clinton, New York, July 26–31, 2026.

More about Mary:

Mary E. Knysh is an internationally recognized music educator, author, performer, and facilitator who has spent more than three decades helping people discover that music is not just something we do—it is part of who we are. As Director of the Musicianship and Leadership Program for Music for People and founder of Rhythmic Connections, Mary has inspired educators, musicians, healthcare professionals, and community leaders around the world through the transformative power of improvisation, rhythm, and creative play.

An Orff Schulwerk clinician, professional musician, recording artist, and international teaching artist, Mary presents workshops, conference sessions, and facilitator trainings throughout the United States, Europe, and beyond. She is the recipient of the 2022 New Jersey Governor's Award for Excellence in Arts Education and is the author of numerous publications, including Drum Circles 101.

Whether working with preschool children, classroom teachers, professional musicians, or people who have never considered themselves "musical," Mary's passion is creating welcoming spaces where every person can experience the joy of making music, building community, and discovering their own creative voice.

Learn more about Mary's work: https://music4wellness.com
Learn more about Music for People: https://www.musicforpeople.org

If this conversation resonates, please like, subscribe, share, and leave a comment about what improvisation means to you.

To find out more about Michael's work: https://michaeldemaria.com/

00:00 Welcome to the Show
00:42 Meet Sharalee Hoelscher
02:58 Michael’s Rolfing Journey
04:03 What Rolfing Really Is
08:32 Gravity as Therapist
12:38 Posture Shapes Psyche
15:29 Gliding and the Midline
22:16 Connective Tissue Explained
27:11 Feeling Fascia in Motion
29:55 Embryology and Forming Life
34:28 Bringing It Back to Practice
34:58 Gravity Heals Through Movement
35:36 Embryology Movement Creates Form
38:11 Unfolding and Unfurling Force Fields
43:07 Adult Body Homeostasis And Posture
45:27 Walking Experiments With Gravity
48:22 Beyond The Machine Model
52:58 Awareness Styles And Learning
57:24 Movement Paths And Feldenkrais
01:03:22 Final Thanks

I'm thrilled to have Sharalee on the show today. I've went through a Rolfing series with her and was fortunate to work with her prior to her retiring this year. Her depth of knowledge and commitment to the true origins of Ida Rolf's work truly impressed me and I have continued to reap benefits from my work with her.

A little more about this episode:

In this episode, Dr. Michael DeMaria welcomes retired Rolfer and craniosacral therapist Sharalee Hoelscher for a profound exploration of Rolfing’s deeper mystery — how movement shapes the self. Together they trace the lineage of Ida Rolf’s work, connecting gravity, fascia, and structural integration to emotional and spiritual transformation.

Sharalee shares insights from decades of practice, explaining how connective tissue acts as a continuous inner skin that organizes the body’s parts, and how gravity itself becomes the therapist when the body finds balance around its midline. They discuss embryology, ontogenesis, and Erich Blechschmidt’s revolutionary idea that movement precedes structure, revealing how this principle continues throughout life as we evolve through new gestures and forms.

Listeners will discover how posture shapes psyche, how trauma transforms through alignment, and how practices like Feldenkrais, yoga, Pilates, dance, and Rolf Movement help sustain the body’s living intelligence.

Keywords: Rolfing, Structural Integration, Fascia, Gravity as Therapist, Embryology, Movement Therapy, Somatic Healing, Trauma Transformation, Feldenkrais, Craniosacral Therapy, Ida Rolf, Body Alignment, Ontogenesis, Somatic Awareness, Sharalee Hoelscher, Michael DeMaria

Sharalee's Listing on Rolf.org: https://mms.rolf.org/members/directory/ROLF_profile.php?mid=1245928883

Michael's website: https://michaeldemaria.com/

0:00 Welcome to the Show
00:36 Meet Andrew Ecker
02:03 Ancestry and Roots
03:49 Life Assignment and Loss
04:58 Gritty Healing Work
06:46 Host Tribute and Sacred Seven
09:05 Opening Prayer
13:19 Relational Spirituality Defined
14:00 From Religion to Red Road
18:22 Trauma Addiction and Liberation
27:15 Energy and Emotional Density
28:56 Drumming in Memory Care
33:00 Displacement and Manifestation
35:29 Trauma Informed Sound Medicine
39:06 Spirituality Over Substances
39:35 Turning Pain Into Practice
40:40 Healthcare Pushback And Support
42:15 Scaling Drum Circle Impact
43:27 Energy Work With Clinicians
45:38 Gong Moment Breakthrough
47:31 Why Research Lags
50:34 Funding A Drumming Study
51:35 Connection Replaces Addiction
53:30 March Retreat Details
54:35 Congo Square And Inclusion
57:22 Transformation Story And Invite
01:00:23 Sacred Seven And Grounding
01:01:49 Blessing And Closing Prayer

The Other Side of Things Podcast

A Soulversation with Andrew Ecker
Recovery • Sacred 7 • Drumming Sounds • Rhythm as Medicine • Living a Prayed Life

In this deeply personal and powerful conversation, I sit down with healer, recovery guide, and founder of Drumming Sounds, Andrew Ecker.

Andrew shares his journey through addiction and recovery, revealing the deeper spiritual hunger beneath substance use and the sacred discipline that reshaped his life. We explore sobriety not as abstinence alone, but as initiation — as an ordeal that strips away illusion and invites us into prayer, service, and presence.

We also dive into Andrew’s Sacred 7 practice, a relational prayer rooted in the seven directions, and how rhythm and intentional drumming restore connection to ancestors, land, body, and spirit.

Andrew introduces his ancestry and lived experience with generational incarceration, substance use disorder, and family loss, and describes bringing drumming into memory care, psychiatric units, prisons, and treatment centers as an evidence-based, trauma-informed practice that emphasizes permission, empathy, and connection. The conversation focuses on “relational spirituality,” learning intimacy and boundaries with mental health experiences, and using drumming, breathwork, guided imagery, and sound medicine to displace “energies of sickness” and support healing. Andrew calls for more research funding for group drumming, shares outcomes from clinical and bereavement contexts, and promotes a March 13–16 retreat-style drumming training in Scottsdale plus his book Sacred Seven and coaching.

Andrew closes our conversation with a spoken prayer — a reminder that healing is not something we do alone, but something we remember together.

If this conversation moves you, consider subscribing and sharing it with someone who may need to hear it.

Andrew's Resources and Links:

Drumming Sounds
https://drummingsounds.com

Sacred 7 Community & Training
https://thesacredseven.com/

Andrew’s Book – The Sacred 7: A Path to Finding the Wholeness of Self-Identity
https://www.amazon.com/Sacred-path-finding-wholeness-self-identity/dp/1090133642?ref_=ast_author_dp

The Sacred 7 explores relational spirituality, identity, and healing rooted in earth-based traditions and community practice.

Michael's resources and links:

Official Website
https://michaelbrantdemaria.com

Books
https://michaeldemaria.com/books/

Music & Albums
https://michaelbrantdemaria.com/music

Films
https://michaeldemaria.com/ontos-films/

YouTube Channel
https://www.youtube.com/@MichaelBrantDeMaria