Host Pete Burden speaks with Dr Rob Warwick – Professor of Management and Organisational Learning at the University of Chichester, in the UK.

Our conversation covers Rob’s view of power, influenced by social theorists like Norbert Elias. A view which sees power as a web of relationships. And how Rob understands his responsibilities as a researcher and lecturer within this context – how every conversation can have unknown, and unpredictable, ripples.

He touches on his own visceral experiences of power, while working, for example, in the NHS. And how ‘detached involvement’, and a growing awareness of power can be used, and be useful in getting things done.

Rob also talks about Action Learning and how, for him, this approach, which requires real vulnerability, allows people to develop a new map of power, and therefore gain agency. Despite perhaps more obvious organisational hierarchy and the positional power that comes with it.

Some book suggestions from Rob:

• Donald Schon – The Reflexive Practitioner
• Stephen Lukes – Power: A Radical View
• Douglas Board – Elites

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Host Pete Burden speaks with Paula Harriott, CEO of Unlock, the UK charity focused on supporting and advocating for people with criminal records.

The conversation covers the importance of shedding the "victim" narrative and embracing an identity of strength and survivorship. Paula advocates for moving beyond eliciting sympathy, and instead focusing on the transformative power of personal experience, by reframing past challenges as learning opportunities, and purposefully developing an identity of resilience.

Individuals can contribute to, and through, deeper, more meaningful conversations. As Paula suggests, this internal, and personal work, though often private, involves acknowledging vulnerability while also choosing to share from a place of strength, ultimately rejecting the perpetuation of "misery memoirs" or "trauma porn."

Paula also underscores the significance of building supportive networks and communities, finding "coalitions of the willing," and engaging in political activity that champions knowledge equity – all while remaining receptive to others and committed to a reflective, embodied practice of healing and modelling positive change.

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Host Pete Burden speaks with Paul Dickinson. In 2000, Paul founded the Climate Disclosure Project (CDP) with an ambitious goal: to create a global economic system that prevents climate change. It does this by persuading 650 of the world’s largest investors, over 24,000 of the largest companies in the world, and over 1000 cities to report annually on their key sustainability metrics.

From this context, Paul describes his experience and practice for getting people involved - from the way he thinks about the world, and the way business works, to the role of repetition and persistence. From the role of ‘small p’ politics, selling and language, to the value of different kinds of policy, including science-based policy.

Today, Paul continues to work entrepreneurially in the area of 'sustainability’ (a difficult word!) via a variety of roles, including co-hosting a weekly climate podcast: Outrage + Optimism.

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Michele Blair talks to host Pete Burden. Michele is the sustainability manager for the small city of Laurel in Maryland, USA. It’s a small city, but has its own governance and the ability to write its own legislation. So there’s an opportunity to keep things small, and respond positively despite the sometimes difficult bigger picture.

Michelle’s passionate about, and deeply involved in, the practicalities of integrating sustainability into the community and city. For her there are several parts to that: working closely with all the stakeholders, and trying to find ‘wiggle room’.

With citizens that means involving the community through focus groups, other events, and making it fun. With politicians that means due diligence – being really clear on the benefits. It’s also about avoiding the pitfalls of gaining authority through hierarchy and finding ways to give everyone a voice, allowing people to grow and breathe.

The draft Sustainability Plan was presented to the Mayor, city council, and the community during a launch party in January 2025.

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Bob Eggington, veteran of media, ‘new’, ‘old’ and international, speaks to host Pete Burden about his career in news organisations large and small. About his management practice, honed over 57 years of working. And the importance of context, of kindness, and of ‘ends’ for achieving a healthy transfer of power.

Bob reveals his approach to leadership and management, and communication, and how saying important things honestly and with candour can be beneficial in surprising ways, even though this may not be obvious until many years later. How we all plant seeds for learning – and affect each other. And the relationship between economics and politics and the media, particularly in developing, post-conflict or transitioning countries.

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Angela Fell talks to host Pete Burden about moving from a service-based, charity-type model to mutual support in and by communities themselves. How to actually move to 'asset-based community development', what that involves, and her journey stepping outside the ‘system’ to do this.

Angela covers her experience of growing up in a working class environment in the North of the UK, especially as a woman. About trying to bring about change with people labelled as 'in need', first from a service perspective. Her emerging understanding that the systems involved can inadvertently preserve the status quo. Through trying to implement the ‘Radical Help’ approach back in 2011, and the transition to building the ‘collective power muscle’ of communities. And about her belief in keeping things small and agile.

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Maff Potts, founder and director of the Association of Camerados, speaks to host Pete Burden about the Camerados movement, based on mutuality, a radically different way for people to experience power, and the relationships (and, shush, great outcomes) that emerge from that.

Maff describes some of the hard won lessons learnt during the 10 years of Camerados, how the organisation stays small in order to minimise the dangers of neglecting mission in favour of survival, and his experience with the tyranny of structurelessness in the early days.

Maff reveals how he has worked to change his behaviour in interactions with others – from sitting on a sofa, and knowing nothing, and sitting on the pavement to level things up with someone experiencing homelessness. To the internal, personal work he has had to do to reduce the need to ‘fix people’.

If you’re interested in starting a Public Living Room start here!

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Swarnalakshmi Ravi speaks to host Pete Burden - about her experiences as a young person involved in the Inclusive Neighbourhood Children’s Parliament in India and becoming a spokesperson for this approach at the United Nations in New York and Geneva.

Swarna describes how Sociocracy (a theory and practice of governance) is used by the Children’s Parliament, and how its principles support democracy. She talks about her own childhood experiences of power and about how her values help her address the risks of ‘ego’. She also covers how she has tried to bring the principles of Sociocracy into more traditional organisational structures, and points to the felt sense of power - and the real joy of being heard and really hearing others.

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