Months ago, I posted a reel encouraging students to try and ask their teachers to round up their grades if they were close to the next letter grade. High school teacher David Loudermilk saw an opportunity to use this idea to teach self-advocacy. In this conversation, Mr. Loudermilk and I discuss how he turned my controversial concept into a reality, requiring students to use argumentative writing skills (claim, evidence, reasoning) to make their case. We dive into why communication is such a critical skill students need, and how creating safe spaces for self-advocacy prepares young people for life's inevitable rejections and opportunities. A must-listen for educators and parents who want to help students find their voice.

* * * * * * * * * * Are you a parent of current or soon-to-be college student? Are you a student? Join BEST FIRST YEAR, Harlan's College Success Coaching Community for High School & College Parents (and students)

Use code Pod15 at checkout and get 15% off a 12 or 18 month membership. Tap here: https://courses.bestfirstyear.com/courses/your-first-course

The Harlan Cohen Podcast is available on Spotify, Amazon, Apple Podcasts, Pandora, or wherever you listen to your podcasts.

Subscribe and listen to Harlan’s podcast here: iTunes: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-harlan-cohen-podcast/id1531004466 Amazon: https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/b5f3901f-d7b6-4f73-b183-8a5e10c4423a/the-harlan-cohen-podcast Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/28gSjxL3CmmL6U9lpDDlCA Podbean: https://harlancohenpodcast.podbean.com/

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About Mr. Loudermilk David Loudermilk is a social science teacher in Northern California. Before teaching high school, he taught middle school, served as a middle school athletic director, worked as a 1:1 paraprofessional in a high school/adult transition program for special needs students, and was a substitute teacher for K-12 classrooms. From 2020-2024, he was elected to serve as a board member for the Durham Unified School District in Durham, California. Related videos: Life Tip 1033 - The Round Up Request Experiment: https://www.instagram.com/reels/DJ5Rh71vTU8/ College Tip 1578 - If You're a College Student Who Successfully Asked a Professor to Round Up https://www.instagram.com/reels/DSKwirLEcNm/

Chapters: 00:00 - Introduction 02:05 - Why This Experiment 03:25 - Points Controversy 07:22 - Building Trust 08:13 - Grade Grubber Myth 10:35 - Evidence-Based Approach 11:27 - Creating Safe Space 12:16 - Social Capital & Equity 15:54 - Worthiness & Advocacy 19:06 - The Process Explained 25:21 - AI Consequences 29:17 - Participation Numbers 30:29 - Email vs Face-to-Face 33:21 - Teacher Time Investment 37:23 - Student Feedback 42:19 - Grades vs Skills 43:00 - Best Buy Story 44:28 - Rejection Lessons 47:37 - Sharing Resources 49:24 - Full Circle Moment 51:08 - Outro

THE HARLAN COHEN PODCAST New York Times bestselling author Harlan Cohen has candid conversations with top experts, and leading influencers. Guests share their greatest victories, devastating setbacks, and most valuable advice to help listeners dream big and take action. Hosted by Harlan Cohen, New York Times bestselling author, and speaker. Harlan is the founder of Best First Year, and has over 1 million books in print. His live events, books, programs, and workshops have reached millions of people and changed countless lives.

I sat down with Michael Itzkowitz, director behind the College Scorecard. Michael shares his incredible journey from PhD student to working in the Obama administration, and now leading HCA where he's revolutionizing how we think about college value and ROI. We dive deep into the questions every family needs to ask: Is college still worth it? How do you evaluate schools beyond just "getting in"? And what happens when students graduate with $100,000+ in debt and a $50,000 starting salary? Michael breaks down how to actually use the College Scorecard, explains median earnings data, and helps us understand what graduation rates really mean.

* * * * * * * * * *

Are you a parent of current or soon-to-be college student? Are you a student? Join BEST FIRST YEAR, Harlan's College Success Coaching Community for High School & College Parents (and students)

Use code Pod15 at checkout and get 15% off a 12 or 18 month membership. Tap here: https://courses.bestfirstyear.com/courses/your-first-course

The Harlan Cohen Podcast is available on Spotify, Amazon, Apple Podcasts, Pandora, or wherever you listen to your podcasts.

Subscribe and listen to Harlan’s podcast here: iTunes: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-harlan-cohen-podcast/id1531004466 Amazon: https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/b5f3901f-d7b6-4f73-b183-8a5e10c4423a/the-harlan-cohen-podcast Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/28gSjxL3CmmL6U9lpDDlCA Podbean: https://harlancohenpodcast.podbean.com/

SUBSCRIBE ON YOUTUBE: www.youtube.com/@HelpMeHarlan Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/harlancohen/ TIKTOK: https://www.tiktok.com/@helpmeharlan?... Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/harlan.cohen/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/harlancohen Twitter: https://x.com/HarlanCohen Website: https://www.HarlanCohen.com

About Michael: Michael Itzkowitz currently serves as Founder and President of the HEA Group, a higher education research and policy organization that focuses on turning higher education opportunities into real value for students and taxpayers. He brings over 15 years of federal education policy expertise, with his work regularly cited by major outlets including the New York Times, Washington Post, and Wall Street Journal. As a Presidential Appointee in the Obama Administration, he directed the College Scorecard—the largest federal higher education data release ever—and served as Deputy Chief of Staff in the Office of Postsecondary Education, helping oversee policy for $120 billion in annual federal student aid.

Links: Follow Mike on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michael-itzkowitz-84786019/ Instagram: @theheagroup https://www.instagram.com/theheagroup/ College Scorecard - https://www.collegescorecard.ed.gov The HEA Group - https://www.theheagroup.com/ Which College Majors Are Worth It?: https://www.theheagroup.com/blog/college-majors-worth-it California College Programs That Pay: https://collegefutures.org/golden-opportunities-programs-that-pay/

Chapters:

00:00 - Intro 04:09 - Rejection and Risk-Taking 06:15 - Working with Obama Administration 09:09 - How He Got His Job 14:28 - Long Game ROI Thinking 18:43 - Conference Networking Strategy 24:23 - Aligning Passion with Mentors 29:50 - Data Objectivity Discussion 35:36 - Is College Worth $400K? 41:29 - How to Research Colleges 58:03 - Understanding Graduation Rates 1:08:10 - Median Earnings Explained 1:12:08 - The $100K Debt Problem 1:17:07 - Financial Fitness Calculator 1:24:17 - Starting Salary Impact 1:29:31 - AI in Data Work 1:38:30 - Final Advice for Students 1:41:36 - HCA Mission and Wrap-Up

THE HARLAN COHEN PODCAST New York Times bestselling author Harlan Cohen has candid conversations with top experts, and leading influencers. Guests share their greatest victories, devastating setbacks, and most valuable advice to help listeners dream big and take action. Hosted by Harlan Cohen, New York Times bestselling author, and speaker. Harlan is the founder of Best First Year, and has over 1 million books in print. His live events, books, programs, and workshops have reached millions of people and changed countless lives.

In this episode, I had a great walk around Evanston, Illinois, with New York Times bestselling author Jeff Selingo to discuss his latest book, Dream School. We talked about why getting into a highly selective college isn't necessarily the key to long-term success and what the data actually shows about how students from less selective, smaller schools go on to build equally fulfilling careers. Jeff and I explored how students can define success on their own terms and why focusing on fit and experience often leads to better outcomes than chasing prestige. Whether you're a student figuring out your next step or a parent trying to support your child through the college search process, this conversation offers practical advice and a much-needed perspective shift. * * * * * * * * * *

Are you a parent of current or soon-to-be college student? Are you a student? Join BEST FIRST YEAR, Harlan's College Success Coaching Community for Parents & Students Use code Pod25 at checkout and get $25 off your membership Tap here: https://courses.bestfirstyear.com/courses/your-first-course

The Harlan Cohen Podcast is available on Spotify, Amazon, Apple Podcasts, Pandora, or wherever you listen to your podcasts.

Subscribe and listen to Harlan’s podcast here: iTunes: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-harlan-cohen-podcast/id1531004466 Amazon: https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/b5f3901f-d7b6-4f73-b183-8a5e10c4423a/the-harlan-cohen-podcast Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/28gSjxL3CmmL6U9lpDDlCA Podbean: https://harlancohenpodcast.podbean.com/

SUBSCRIBE ON YOUTUBE: www.youtube.com/@HelpMeHarlan Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/harlancohen/ TIKTOK: https://www.tiktok.com/@helpmeharlan?... Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/harlan.cohen/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/harlancohen Twitter: https://x.com/HarlanCohen Website: https://www.HarlanCohen.com

ABOUT JEFF: Jeff Selingo is a New York Times bestselling author, special advisor and professor of practice to the president at Arizona State University, and co-host of the Future U. podcast. For more than 25 years, he's been at the forefront of higher education journalism and analysis, having served as the top editor of The Chronicle of Higher Education for 18 years.

Jeff is the author of four books, including several New York Times bestsellers. His most recent book, Dream School: Finding the College That's Right for You, was published in September 2025. The Chronicle of Higher Education His previous book, Who Gets In and Why: A Year Inside College Admissions, was named one of the Most Notable Books of 2020 by The New York Times.

Website: https://jeffselingo.com Latest Book (Dream School): https://amzn.to/4p19N8h Newsletter (Next): https://jeffselingo.com (sign up link) Future U. Podcast: https://www.futureupodcast.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeffselingo X/Twitter: @jselingo Dream School Reference in The New Yorker: https://www.newyorker.com/news/the-lede/the-great-student-swap

THE HARLAN COHEN PODCAST New York Times bestselling author Harlan Cohen has candid conversations with top experts, and leading influencers. Guests share their greatest victories, devastating setbacks, and most valuable advice to help listeners dream big and take action. Hosted by Harlan Cohen, New York Times bestselling author, and speaker. Harlan is the founder of Best First Year, and has over 1 million books in print. His live events, books, programs, and workshops have reached millions of people and changed countless lives.