After a quick discussion about the false self and how what we value can be opposed to what God values, Kyle invites Wayne to process an email he received from a close friend documenting his growing concerns about how he has viewed the church. They discuss how modern churches evolved from a community-based model to an institutional structure with a single leader as the face of the organization, and how that can easily lead to corruption and abuse of power. As our lifelong assumptions begin to unravel, we will do well to find our security not in systems, doctrines, or religious requirements but in our experience of God's love in daily life.

Podcast Notes:

• The video version of this podcast
• Get your copy of Just Love

Kyle has been talking to some couples, 8-12 years into marriage, who are discouraged that they are no longer able to find a meaningful connection with their spouse. He invites Wayne into a conversation about what a couple can do when they realize their spouse isn't who they thought they were when they were dating. After they open with beauty in the midst of misery, and our false theological certainties that make it easy to scapegoat others, they share how important it is that marriages grow through mutual influence—letting the needs, desires, and struggles of our partner become part of our journey as well. They also talk about the importance of living out of internal fullness to navigate the more difficult moments.

Podcast Notes:

• The video version of this podcast
• Wayne's Great Day Colorado Interview
• Psychologists say this 'green flag' is one of the strongest predictors of a successful relationship
• Get your copy of Just Love

Wayne and Kyle discuss an email from the U.K. that they found breathtaking in its simple depth. After a lighthearted reflection on the quirks of people we love, they turn to something more profound—how Jesus offered a completely different way of living than the power-driven systems we see around us. True spiritual authority doesn’t come from titles or positions, but from a life deeply connected to God and genuinely serving others. When authority becomes tied to identity, it often turns inward—becoming self-serving and harmful. But real authority doesn’t demand attention; it creates space—safe, open, and life-giving—for others to encounter God for themselves.

Podcast Notes:

• The video version of this podcast
• Walter Brueggermann on the Justice from Below
• Rowena's last paragraph: "If much of what is collapsing right now is authority rooted in structure, perhaps what is emerging is authority rooted in union - not louder, not more visible, but more real. And maybe Kingdom governance won't announce itself clearly at first; it will simply be recognised-by the fruit it carries, and by the life that flows through it."
• Get your copy of Just Love