Former Hillsong pastor Carl Lentz is back in the spotlight with a new book about surviving infidelity, but should some sins permanently disqualify a pastor from ministry? Esau, Malcolm, and Mike discuss the difference between forgiveness and restoration, the dangers of celebrity pastors, and the Christian publishing industry's role in rehabilitating fallen leaders. Then, President Trump has developed a strange new obsession with people's backsides, and a Republican candidate in Ohio has released a political ad that takes dirty campaigning to a whole new level. What happens when Christians become so committed to political victories that they abandon their moral convictions? And is there any bottom left for American politics to hit?

0:00 - Theme Song

1:35 - Carl Lentz and Abuse of Power

7:20 - Monetizing Infidelity?

35:36 - Sponsor - World Relief - World Relief's newest guide, Beyond the Ballot, was designed to equip you with relevant facts, tools and resources to engage immigration and displacement issues with understanding, compassion and courage: https://worldrelief.org/holypost

36:53 - Vivek Ramaswamy Ad Controversy

49:25 - End Credits

Articles Covered:

Carl Lentz:

https://www.wsj.com/style/hillsong-carl-laura-lentz-book-22fa7c1d

Trump's Inappropriate Comments:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2026/oct/25/trump-nicki-minaj-mike-rogers-michigan-rally

Article on Vivek Ramaswamy's Ad:

https://www.nytimes.com/2026/10/24/us/politics/vivek-ramaswamy-ad-ohio-amy-acton.html

Power can be dangerous, especially when the people who have it don't realize just how much they wield. Sharon Miller joins Esau and Mike to discuss Kelly Clarkson's bizarre feud with a Brooklyn toy store and what it reveals about the blind spots of powerful people. Meanwhile, Elon Musk is pouring millions into the midterm elections, raising troubling questions about the influence of wealth, racism, and the issues Christians are willing to overlook for political victories. And as protests turn violent in France, are older generations protecting their own interests at the expense of the young? Plus, should Christians be worried about people turning to AI for spiritual advice, and what can a grieving mathematician teach us about the meaning of life?

0:00 - Theme Song

3:13 - Kelly and the Toy Bird

9:06 - Oblivious Powerful People

26:30 - Sponsor: The Subtext - Want to see pop-culture through the lens of faith and ethics? We've got a podcast you need to check out: https://pod.link/1835471106

27:48 - France's Student Riots

38:41 - A.I. and Preaching

49:31 - End Credits

AI Mathematician on The Meaning of Life:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfGenpmOjDQ

The Economist on AI and Religion:

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/slFPKBdE8-Y

How can Christians have difficult conversations about faith without turning every disagreement into an argument? Christian hip-hop artist and apologist Emmanuel "Da Truth" Lambert joins Esau to discuss his new book, Forgive Me If I Was Rude, and why defending Christianity requires more than having the right answers. They explore the difference between winning arguments and reaching people, the importance of understanding someone's doubts and experiences, and why the gospel is bigger than many Christians realize. Plus, how should Christians respond to criticism of the church, and why do so many of us abandon kindness when we get on social media?

0:00 - Theme Song

0:56 - Forgive Me if I was Rude

6:02 - Deconstruction

16:52 - Responding to Those Questioning Christianity

23:34 - Sponsor - Church at the Crossroads - Esau shares about Church at the Crossroads, a conference hosted by Palestinian Christians in Atlanta, November 5–7. The gathering offers an opportunity to meet and learn from Palestinian pastors and Christian leaders, join in worship, and enjoy Palestinian food and cultural experiences, with time for conversation and fellowship. Use code ESAU for 20% off. Register at www.churchatthecrossroads.com/atlanta

24:47 - Sponsor - Brooklyn Bedding - For a quality mattress, go to https://www.brooklynbedding.com and use promo code ESAU to get 30% off site wide!

25:47 - Sponsor - The Subtext - Want to see pop-culture through the lens of faith and ethics? We've got a podcast you need to check out: https://pod.link/1835471106

27:06 - Respond to the Culture

43:50 - Convergence of All Time

58:48 - End Credits

Forgive Me If I Was Rude: The Art of Having Complicated Faith-Based Conversations by Emmanuel Lambert: https://amzn.to/4ztEI1L

A sexual assault case at Cornell has sparked intense debate about consent, trauma, and how we talk about victims before all the facts are known. Esau is joined by Mika Edmondson to discuss what Christian sexual ethics should say about power, exploitation, and the dignity of the body. Then, they look at new research suggesting Black Christians in multi-ethnic churches may become less civically engaged, and ask what churches lose when pastors are too afraid to address racial injustice. Plus, are kids actually getting dumber? The guys talk declining test scores, shrinking attention spans, and what happens when education becomes only a means to the next achievement.

0:00 - Theme Song

2:12 - Cornell 7 and God's Heart for Victims

11:55 - Church Should Be a Place of Healing

19:46 - Sponsor - Church at the Crossroads - Esau shares about Church at the Crossroads, a conference hosted by Palestinian Christians in Atlanta, November 5–7. The gathering offers an opportunity to meet and learn from Palestinian pastors and Christian leaders, join in worship, and enjoy Palestinian food and cultural experiences, with time for conversation and fellowship. Use code ESAU for 20% off. Register at www.churchatthecrossroads.com/atlanta

21:00 - Sponsor - Want to see pop-culture through the lens of faith and ethics? We've got a podcast you need to check out: https://pod.link/1835471106

22:18 - Myth of the Non-Political Church

30:11 - Pastoring a Multi-Racial Church

39:50 - Are Teenagers Getting Dumber?

53:45 - End Credits

The Power of Unearned Suffering by Mika Edmondson:

https://amzn.to/3Wd9qOh

Student Test scores going down:

https://www.nytimes.com/2026/09/08/us/us-reading-test-scores-pisa.html

Tim Tebow is facing criticism after an investigation raised questions about a Christian financial conference where he regularly spoke and encouraged attendees to sign up for classes. Esau, Mike, and guest Justin Giboney discuss how much responsibility Christian leaders have to vet the organizations they lend their name and credibility to, and when influence starts to look like endorsement. Then, they turn to grind culture and the popular idea that success simply comes down to wanting it badly enough. Does hard work really separate the people who make it from the people who don't, or are opportunity, timing, talent, and providence part of the story too? Plus, the guys discuss how quickly the internet can turn a brief viral moment into a sweeping judgment about someone's entire life.

0:00 - Theme Song

0:17 - Mike's Man Cold

1:38 - Tim Tebow Trouble

12:22 - Kirk Franklin and GloRilla

19:42 - Sponsor - Church at the Crossroads - Esau shares about Church at the Crossroads, a conference hosted by Palestinian Christians in Atlanta, November 5–7. The gathering offers an opportunity to meet and learn from Palestinian pastors and Christian leaders, join in worship, and enjoy Palestinian food and cultural experiences, with time for conversation and fellowship. Use code ESAU for 20% off. Register at www.churchatthecrossroads.com/atlanta

20:54 - Sponsor - The Subtext - Want to see pop-culture through the lens of faith and ethics? We've got a podcast you need to check out: https://pod.link/1835471106

22:14 - Meeting People Where They Are?

26:11 - Druski and Grind Culture

44:24 - End Credits

Inside Tim Tebow's Favorite Wealth Seminar: https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2026/09/life-surge-the-gospel-of-high-yields-inside-tim-tebows-favorite-wealth-seminar/

Kirk Franklin and GloRilla:

https://www.crosswalk.com/headlines/contributors/michael-foust/kirk-franklin-glorilla-collaboration-sparks-debate-over-her-explicit-music.html

Nacho Mom:

https://people.com/mom-of-the-year-carries-baby-food-at-mlb-game-defends-husband-after-viral-backlash-12143084

Meryl Streep is the new voice of Aslan, and Christians have plenty of opinions about it. Esau, Malcolm, and Producer Mike talk about the outrage over Greta Gerwig's Narnia casting choice and what it reveals about the things Christians choose to treat as sacred. They also discuss Nicole Hannah-Jones's reflections on sending her daughter to public school and the difficult question of whether our children should have to bear the cost of our convictions. Plus, Esau breaks down Pete Hegseth's use of Isaiah 6 on his "Send Me" military tour and why turning a prophetic calling into a recruiting message badly distorts the text.

0:00 - Theme Song

0:32 - Malcolm Foley

5:34 - Pete Hegseth and Isaiah 6

17:44 - Sending Kids to Private or Public School?

31:23 - Sponsor - Brooklyn Bedding - For a quality mattress, go to https://www.brooklynbedding.com and use promo code ESAU to get 30% off site wide!

32:15 - Sponsor - The Subtext - Want to see pop-culture through the lens of faith and ethics? We've got a podcast you need to check out: https://pod.link/1835471106

33:27 - Sponsor - The Center for Christianity and Public Life - Come to Washington, D.C. on October 5-7 to join the Good of the Public Summit. Go to https://www.ccpubliclife.org and use code BETTERSTORY for 20% off at registration

35:00 - Parental Failure

37:34 - Meryl Streep as Aslan

51:23 - End Credits

Pete Hegseth:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F0VynQFRJRs

Can I Kick My Dog out of Bed?

https://www.nytimes.com/2026/09/22/well/get-pet-out-of-bed.html

Greta Gerwig's Narnia Casting Choice:

https://deadline.com/2026/09/greta-gerwig-chose-meryl-streep-voice-aslan-narnia-1237107096/

Public Schools

https://www.nytimes.com/2026/09/20/magazine/ny-public-schools-black-students-segregation.html

A Texas political candidate sees a crowd of brown students celebrating and assumes they must be foreigners. Esau, Mike, and Pricelis Perreaux-Dominguez unpack what that reaction reveals about race, belonging, and the fear of a changing America. They also talk about the growing power of AI, the tech world's obsession with overcoming human limits, and why some limitations may actually be good for us. Plus, Pricelis shares about her new book, False Peace, and why churches can confuse unity with sameness, asking people to assimilate instead of making room for genuine difference.

0:00 - Theme Song

0:20 - Esau in Español?

1:43 - Boosie's Presidential Pardon Attempt

6:20 - Community Work

19:35 - Sponsor - The Subtext - Want to see pop-culture through the lens of faith and ethics? We've got a podcast you need to check out: https://pod.link/1835471106

20:52 - Sponsor - With God Daily - Get the daily devotional for people who hate daily devotionals in your inbox every day by signing up at: https://holypost.com/plus

22:05 - A.I. and False Promises

33:24 - False Peace by Assimilation

49:08 - End Credits

False Peace: How to Reject the Lie of Sameness, Embrace Difference, and Embody True Unity (How Christians Can Go Beyond Surface-Level Agreement to Build Communities of Authentic Unity) by Priceless Perreaux-Dominguez: https://amzn.to/4yCKduC

Articles Covered:

Boosie Lawsuit:

https://www.nytimes.com/2026/07/18/us/boosie-badazz-pardon-lawsuit.html

New York Times on AI Tech Apocalypse:

https://www.nytimes.com/2026/09/12/opinion/ai-tech-apocalypse-silicon-valley.html

Esau joins Justin Giboney and Christopher Butler of the Church Politics Podcast for a special crossover conversation about Black liberation theology, James Cone, and the relationship between justice and the gospel. Together, they explore what Cone got right about the church's failures on race and oppression, where liberation theology can become too narrow, and why Christians need a gospel that transforms both people and society. They also discuss the resurrection, the authority of Scripture, the danger of reducing Christianity to a political program, and what faithful public witness should actually look like.

0:00 - Theme Song

2:10 - Chance the Rapper on Liberation Theology

5:21 - James Cone's Books

20:56 - The Errors of Liberation Theology

39:52 - Trusting God, Not People

57:22 - End Credits