Disability Equality Is Best Served With Co-Production

Not knowing the answers is OK. Staying that way isn't. In this episode, Esi is joined by Emma Vogelmann, disability policy and campaigns expert and founder of The Wheelchair Activist, to talk about why disabled people need to be involved from the very start of the decisions that affect them.

Emma shares the story behind the campaign to save England's rail ticket offices, where over 90 organisations came together and the public response helped force a government U-turn. From there, Esi and Emma explore what real co-production looks like, how inflexible return to office policies push disabled people out of work, and why accessible services start with clear information and staff who know where to find the answers. Whether you lead a team, run a business or shape policy, this conversation offers practical first steps for building disability equality alongside the people it's for.

In this episode

• How disabled people and allies came together to stop the closure of rail ticket offices
• Why transport is the foundation for work, independence and inclusion
• The real impact of return to office policies and in person interviews on disabled people
• The difference between co-production and consultation
• How to start co-producing a policy when you don't know where to begin
• "Disability admin" and why clear access information makes or breaks a decision
• Quick, low cost adjustments that send a big message to disabled customers
• Where disabled people and businesses can start understanding rights and obligations

Resources mentioned

• Emma's written evidence to the Women and Equalities Committee inquiry on flexible working and disability: https://committees.parliament.uk/writtenevidence/167674/html/
• Transport for All, including their helpline and casework support: https://www.transportforall.org.uk
• Purpl, a membership offering discounts for disabled people
• Arlo West, who designed The Wheelchair Activist branding

Connect with Emma
Website: https://www.thewheelchairactivist.com
The Wheelchair Activist podcast: https://www.thewheelchairactivist.com/the-podcast
LinkedIn: Emma Vogelmann

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Belonging starts with access. Esi talks with Jennifer Cairns, a neurodivergent and disabled social impact entrepreneur, about accessibility, disability inclusion and creating workplaces where people never feel they have to hide parts of themselves to be valued. Jennifer is the founder of We Roar Magazine and Lady Rebel Club, and of the No More Hiding and Make Accessibility Accessible movements.

Jennifer explains why her work is built on one conviction: people already have value, and the job is to create the conditions for that value to be recognised. She shares why she describes her organisation as "access conscious" rather than "fully accessible", and why nothing is ever 100% accessible. Esi reflects on the feedback that changed how she approached the Celebrating Disability website, and what listening openly made possible.

The conversation turns to why accessibility so often stalls. It takes knowledge, time, money and energy, and when people feel they are getting it wrong, discomfort can lead to silence. Jennifer sets out a different approach: celebrating access needs, recognising other people's access wins and sharing small, practical steps that build momentum. She also makes the business case. When people feel they belong, they buy more and become advocates, but they have to be able to access you first.

For EDI leaders, the takeaway is to look for evidence that employees actually feel they belong, test what's working, and keep asking what to do next.

In this episode

• Why rest can be an act of rebellion, and defining success on your own terms
• No More Hiding: changing the environment, not the individual
• Being access conscious: doing the best with the resources and knowledge available
• Why open invitations to share support needs work better than claims of full accessibility
• Moving accessibility from shame to celebration
• The business case for belonging
• Practical advice for EDI leaders and business owners

Timestamps

03:16 Rest, burnout and defining success for yourself
14:09 What drew Jennifer to this work
23:23 The No More Hiding movement
30:30 Being access conscious rather than "fully accessible"
40:18 Esi's website story: what feedback made possible
42:56 Make Accessibility Accessible: from shame to celebration
57:48 Being kind to yourself and celebrating small wins
1:02:33 Advice for EDI leaders

Links

• Connect with Jennifer on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jennifer-cairns/
• "Be a Friend to Yourself" video: https://youtu.be/wFUxiIjp-Nk

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Equality is often the goal. But treating everyone the same does not necessarily get us there.

In this episode of The Equality Edit, Esi Hardy is joined by Christian F. Nunes, founder and CEO of Equity Bound Solutions, to explore why equity needs to come before equality and what that means in practice for organisations.

The conversation explores psychological safety, trust and the difference between saying an organisation is inclusive and creating an environment where people actually experience inclusion.

Esi and Christian discuss why organisations need to look beyond individual initiatives and examine the systems, policies and expectations that can create barriers. They explore why one off interventions are rarely enough to repair trust, and why sustainable change requires organisations to listen to employees, acknowledge where barriers exist and be transparent about what they will do with the information they receive.

The discussion challenges familiar ways of measuring performance. KPIs and organisational expectations may appear neutral, but standardised measures can create disadvantage when they fail to account for different circumstances, ways of working, disabilities and responsibilities.

Intersectionality runs throughout the conversation. Rather than approaching disability, race, gender and other identities separately, Christian and Esi discuss the importance of seeing the whole person and recognising how different identities, experiences and circumstances intersect.

Christian draws on her professional expertise and her own experiences as a Black woman with invisible disabilities to explore what these intersections can mean in practice.

This episode explores

• Why equality and equity are not interchangeable
• How intersectionality changes people's experiences of the workplace
• The relationship between psychological safety, trust and inclusion
• Why listening to employees is only useful when organisations act on what they hear
• How seemingly neutral policies and KPIs can create barriers
• Why sustainable inclusion requires more than one off training or initiatives
• How organisations can move from reacting to individual problems towards proactively creating equity.

A term mentioned in this episode

Parentification: A term used to describe a situation where a child takes on responsibilities or roles that would usually belong to a parent or other adult.

About Christian F. Nunes

Christian F. Nunes is the founder and CEO of Equity Bound Solutions LLC. Her work focuses on proactive equitable solutions that help organisations embed equity into their programmes, policies and organisational culture.

Website: https://www.equityboundsolutions.com
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/christian-f-nunes-mba-ms-lcsw02
Instagram: @christianfnunes_official
Instagram: @equityboundsolutions

As Christian reflects towards the end of the conversation, creating inclusion does not require us to personally share or fully understand every experience of oppression. It requires a commitment to recognise it and do something about it.

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