You can be extremely capable—leading teams, hitting deadlines, maintaining good habits—while still living as an expert procrastinator. Most of us can find some gap between what we intend to do (and who we intend to be) and the lives we actually lead. And often, the things we put off are the very things that bring us the greatest satisfaction.

In this episode, Michael and Megan sit down with Jon Acuff, New York Times bestselling author of Procrastination Proof, Finish, and Soundtracks, to explore why procrastination is really a way of avoiding a feeling, how to separate fear-driven delay from intentional sequencing, and why a thriving marriage, a healthy body, and deep friendships take the same deliberate effort as a successful business. If that gap sounds familiar, this conversation will help you start closing it.

Memorable Quotes

1. “Depth takes more time than I might like to admit. And for me to be really good at an idea or a thing takes a level of depth—and depth takes time.”
2. “I love when I don’t do things intentionally because I’ve put some wisdom and some time and some thought into it. I don’t like when I don’t do things out of fear, and I can tell when fear is driving a delay versus intentionality.”
3. “Where is there insecurity that’s kinda speaking versus wisdom?… If you’re hustling so hard, you can’t even notice that. And then the other challenge, in my opinion, is the more successful you get, the worse they let you behave.”
4. “When I approach any part of my life from a service perspective, it reduces the pressure on me. It tamps down that ego, and… the client has an amazing experience because they’re like, ‘Oh, you really were invested in the success of this thing.’”
5. “I think that ultimately your success will be determined by your capacity to feel feelings you don’t like, uh, for the sake of something you want more than that.”
6. “My definition of procrastination is really simple: it’s when your actions don’t match your intentions… And a remarkable life, in my opinion, is when your intentions overlap with your actions, when who you say you wanna be is who you’re being.”
7. “Belief comes by one of three ways: they’re born, they’re borrowed, or they’re built… I just don’t think enough of us know you get to build your beliefs. You get to build the life you want. Regardless of where you came from or where you started from, you get to do that.”
8. “My favorite definition of discipline is: make tomorrow easy today.”

Key Takeaways

1. Procrastination Solves a Problem. Putting something off protects you from an experience you’d rather avoid—like criticism, rejection, or the finality of ending something. But it also keeps you from the success and growth waiting on the other side of that discomfort.
2. Some Waiting Is Wise. Sequencing a project so you can focus on the next right thing, waiting for information you need, or canceling a workout to protect a family weekend are all deliberate, wise choices. Discerning whether intention or fear is driving your delay takes self-awareness.
3. Raise Your Tolerance for Discomfort. The hard feelings around a decision probably won’t become pleasant. The work is to get convinced enough of what you want that you act anyway, and let your capacity to tolerate the discomfort grow over time.
4. Ambition Has a Price Tag. You don’t have to shrink your ambition, but you do have to know what you’re willing to pay for it. Past a certain level, more success adds more responsibility without returning the kind of deep-level satisfaction we’re all after.
5. You Can Build Your Beliefs. Some of your beliefs come from family, and others are absorbed from the culture around you. But there’s a third option. Anytime a belief isn’t supporting where you want to go, you can rewrite it on purpose.

Resources

• Procrastination Proof by Jon Acuff
• Finish by Jon Acuff
• Soundtracks by Jon Acuff
• All It Takes Is a Goal (Podcast)

This episode was produced by Sarah Vorhees Wendel of VW Sound

Chaos always prompts us to search for something solid. Confronted by the upheaval of economic reckoning, ecological exhaustion, and existential uncertainty, our souls are reaching for anything tangible and true. We want what’s real. That’s the core message of Ryan Levesque, a seven-time Inc. 5000 CEO who walked away from his former life to move with his family to a farm in Vermont. He joins Michael and Megan to talk about his book Return to Real and how we can respond wisely to the hunger felt in our souls and in the marketplace within an artificial, digital age. He unpacks how we can craft moments—at work and at home—that reward what makes us uniquely human. Because that’s what we’re all longing and looking for.

Memorable Quotes

1. “The double craving—what your body, your heart, what your spirit is starving for right now—is also what much of the market is starving for. And when you can find the intersection… there’s economic opportunity. What’s good for your biology can also be good for your bottom line.”
2. “The last decade, in many ways, in business was a story about dopamine… ‘Create an app that’s addictive so people keep coming back to it.’ But if we look at most of the maladies of modern life—loneliness, disconnection—they are symptoms of a lack of the neurotransmitter oxytocin. Oxytocin is a neurotransmitter of trust, of love.”
3. “We’re swimming in this sea of artificial everything, and we’re seeking truth. We live in an era of a default state of distrust… We no longer trust our eyes and ears, our sensory experience, when we are experiencing the world through a screen.”
4. “The truth is in the tension. It’s not ‘Throw AI in a bin.’ It’s not ‘Go 100% analog.’ It’s about picking the right moments and the right places to insert it.”
5. “People will pay for work that’s been attached to a real human life… When people see the work and the effort that’s gone into something, they value it. That’s the provenance premium.”
6. “Just because the technology is capable of doing something doesn’t necessarily mean that that’s how we should be using that technology.”
7. “I tell my kids all the time: ‘Choose your hard, otherwise your hard will choose you.’ What we’ve done and what we’re doing is not easy… but all things in life worth doing are hard.”
8. “If you are not analog by design, you will become digital by default… There are trillion-dollar technology companies that will not stop until every moment of human attention has been consumed and monetized… So if you're not fighting against those forces actively… then you will be consumed by the digital vortex.”

Key Takeaways

1. Your Craving and Your Market’s Are the Same. What your body and spirit want right now also reflect what much of your market wants. That double longing reveals economic opportunity.
2. Optimize for Oxytocin. Dopamine has long been stealing the headlines, but the neurotransmitter of the next decade is oxytocin, which signals trust and love. How can you make your business more human?
3. Don’t Advertise Your AI. Deploy AI away from customer-facing environments. The technology we use helps power what’s possible, but the work people value is attached to human effort and human lives.
4. Defying Digital Requires Intention. In a world built on and by technology where trillions are spent on directing our attention, we must seek out ways to reintegrate what’s real—to choose analog by design.
5. A Rhythm You Can Try Today. Slowing for a few moments can shift an entire day. Ryan Levesque suggests a simple resolution from Ali Jafarian: Touch earth before touching a screen.

Resources

• Return to Real: The Last Human Advantage in an Age of Artificial Everything by Ryan Levesque
• The Digital Contrarian (Ryan’s Weekly Newsletter)
• The Full Focus Insider (Megan Hyatt Miller’s Newsletter)
• Braiding Sweetgrass by Robin Wall Kimmerer

This episode was produced by Sarah Vorhees Wendel of VW Sound