Tune in to Justin Michelson, co-founder of the Eugene Insight Meditation Center and author of The Dharma of Healing: A Path of Liberation from Stress, Pain, and Trauma. Justin teaches in the Insight Vipassana and Thai Forest traditions and lives in an intentional community outside Eugene, Oregon, where he also runs a native plant nursery and leads nature-based meditation retreats.

In this rich and intimate conversation, Justin shares his spiritual journey - from discovering meditation at fifteen and training in the Buddhist path, to confronting stuck emotions and unnamed trauma that his practice alone couldn't resolve. He speaks candidly about how integrating somatic therapy and Internal Family Systems work with Buddhist teachings led to a profound awakening and ultimately to his book. Justin explains why self-compassion is often the missing doorway to deeper spiritual insight, and why our aversion to pain - not the pain itself - is what locks suffering in place.

Together, Margaret and Justin explore what it means to treat our pain as a teacher, the surprising truth that even our most frightening inner "monsters" can be just one compassionate moment away from transformation, and how Justin had to lean on his own teachings when a serious illness tested everything he had written. They also discuss the power of intentional community, the role of faith and devotion on the path, and why there is no "finish line" in healing - only an ever-deepening devotion to caring for whatever arises.

The episode closes with a beautiful guided self-compassion practice built on four simple phrases - I see you, I understand, I care, and I'm here to support you - offering listeners a concrete tool they can begin using immediately, whether toward themselves or others.

Whether you're a longtime meditator, someone navigating trauma, or simply curious about healing at the intersection of spirituality and psychology, this episode offers gentle, accessible wisdom for moving toward connection - with yourself, with others, and with the natural world.

Find Justin at justinmichaelsondharma.com, where you can learn about his upcoming retreats and find his book The Dharma of Healing: A Path of Liberation from Stress, Pain, and Trauma, on Shambhala, Amazon, and Barnes & Noble.

Rosanne Annoni - psychotherapist of 35 years, ordained Diamond Approach teacher, and author of the newly released memoir Unfolding the Heart: One Woman's Quest for True Nature, traces the remarkable arc of her spiritual journey: from a childhood vision of becoming a Catholic nun (and her mother's unforgettable reaction) to years of searching through metaphysics and Vipassana meditation, to finding her spiritual home in the Diamond Approach and the teachings of Hameed Ali (A.H. Almaas).

Rosanne shares the story of how a book her student gave her, A Cave in the Snow, inspired her to spend a month of silent retreat at Gampo Abbey for her 60th birthday - where she unexpectedly found herself staying in Pema Chödrön's own cabin. She also reflects on the surprising echoes between her Catholic upbringing and Buddhist practice, from incense and chanting to prayer as a form of meditation, and how the two traditions ultimately reconciled in her heart - including a deeply moving moment of forgiveness with her mother near the end of her life.

At the heart of this conversation is Rosanne's raw and honest account of grief and transformation: losing her "twin soul," her best friend of 45 years, to cancer while facing her own diagnosis, and how that crushing loss called her to truly live her practice. She speaks candidly about losing contact with her true nature, finding her way back, and the lesson impermanence keeps teaching as she approaches 80. Her closing message is one of hope - that no matter your tradition or your messy life, a willingness to turn inward with curiosity makes it possible for anyone to discover who they really are.

Unfolding the Heart is available in paperback, ebook, and audiobook (read by Rosanne herself) at Amazon, Simon & Schuster, and Bookshop.com.

Margaret sits down with Michael Todd Fink - licensed psychotherapist, mindfulness meditation teacher, host of the Kind Mind podcast, and co-founder of the folk rock group The Giving Tree Band - to discuss his beautiful new book of reflections and poetry, Losslessness: Reflections on Impermanence, Glimpses of Forever.

Todd shares the wisdom at the heart of his writing: that impermanence doesn't negate meaning - it undergirds it. Through the metaphor of waves rising and falling on the ocean, he explores how what falls away clarifies what abides, and how loss can orient us back to our true nature. Margaret and Todd also dive into his poem "Life is a Movie," examining how the challenges and "plot twists" of our lives might be embraced as part of a meaningful story rather than resisted as obstacles.

The conversation moves into Todd's clinical practice, where he discusses how creativity, ritual, and rites of passage help people navigate grief and transition. He shares the deeply personal story of how woodworking helped him heal after a painful loss, and how making small decisions through art can restore confidence and direction when we feel stuck. Drawing on his work with indigenous communities in New Mexico, Todd reflects on cultural humility and the many different ways of knowing beyond Western clinical research.

Margaret and Todd also explore the tension between attachment and fear, how our culture's compartmentalization of art, science, and spirituality limits us - and how integrating all three streams can open the door to transformation. Todd generously reads from his poem "The Root of Fear," offering an intimate look at his own lifelong relationship with anxiety and the practice of letting go.

Whether you're grieving a loss, facing a major life transition, or simply curious about how Buddhist wisdom intersects with modern psychology, this episode offers compassionate insight and practical wisdom for finding your center in a rapidly changing world.

Find his book: "Losslessness: Reflections on Impermanence, Glimpses of Forever" (available on Amazon, michaeltoddfink.com, and Luna and Luz in Albuquerque)

Find Michael:

· Website: michaeltoddfink.com

· Podcast: The Kind Mind Podcast (available on podcast platforms and YouTube)

· Psychology Today Blog Series: "The Circle of Compassion"

And do not forget:

· Artist: Mary Drury (Dryad Expressions) created the cover art and offers prints