Why do so many of us stay in emotionally abusive relationships for 10, 20, even 30 years? In this episode, Renee welcomes back psychotherapist and author Amy Lewis Bear to talk about how we lose ourselves in a relationship, and the mental traps that keep us explaining away what’s happening.

Amy introduces the Echo Complex, the idea at the center of her new book When Loving You Means Losing Me: How to Escape the Echo Complex and Reclaim Your Sense of Self. It describes the slow loss of self that happens when a partner keeps you at an emotional distance through criticism, blame, invalidation and twisting the truth, while you keep trying to win back their love and approval. Amy and Renee talk about why a partner who can’t be vulnerable shuts down real emotional intimacy. They also explore why we stay attached to who we believe our partner could be instead of who they consistently show us they are.

Amy then breaks down three cognitive biases that keep people stuck in toxic relationships: confirmation bias, anchoring bias and the halo effect. She also shares a hard truth: the qualities that make you a good partner, like loyalty, commitment and empathy, are often the very things that keep you there.

Amy is a psychotherapist who also lived through an emotionally abusive first marriage. Learn more about her work at www.amylewisbear.com.

Want support on your own healing journey? Learn about Renee’s coaching at www.covertnarcissism.com. Her book, This Is Not Okay: Escaping the Invisible Grip of Covert Narcissistic Abuse, is available wherever books are sold. Subscribe so you don’t miss part two.

The information provided by Renee Swanson, Covert Narcissism Podcast, and CNG Life Coaching is for educational purposes only and is not to be used for diagnosis purposes and not intended to be a substitute for clinical care. Please consult a health care provider for guidance specific to your case.

This material discusses narcissism in general. Renee shares stories from her personal experiences as well as from those she has talked with for several years. Her material does not claim that any specific person has narcissism and should not be used to refer to any specific person as having narcissism. Permission is not granted to link to or repost this material to support an allegation or support a claim that any specific person is a narcissist. That would be an unauthorized misuse of the material and information provided.

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In relationships shaped by covert narcissism, “it’s fine” can become the two words you say most, even when nothing is fine at all. At the beginning, a disagreement was just a disagreement. You expect to talk it through, compromise, and find your way back to each other. What you find instead is defensiveness, blame-shifting, circular conversations, and gaslighting. Over time, ordinary disagreements start to feel like threats, and your body responds with fight, flight, freeze, or fawn.

Swallowed emotions cost your body, your voice, and your relationships around you. For anyone in narcissistic abuse recovery, this episode is a reminder that real peace isn’t the absence of conflict on the outside. It’s the absence of the storm on the inside.

Resources mentioned:

• Fight or Flight series, Part 1 and Part 2 recorded on Aug. 16 and 23, 2026(Covert Narcissism Podcast)
• Don’t Believe Everything You Think by Joseph Nguyen
• This Is Not Okay by Renee Swanson, available in paperback, ebook, and audiobook on Amazon and Audible

If you’re ready to stop carrying the storm alone, Renee’s coaching program offers support, tools, and a community that understands. Learn more at www.covertnarcissism.com.

Subscribe to the Covert Narcissism Podcast so you never miss an episode, and share it with someone who needs to hear that their peace matters too.

The information provided by Renee Swanson, Covert Narcissism Podcast, and CNG Life Coaching is for educational purposes only and is not to be used for diagnosis purposes and is not intended to be a substitute for clinical care. Please consult a health care provider for guidance specific to your case.

This material discusses narcissism in general. Renee shares stories from her personal experiences as well as from those she has talked with for several years. Her material does not claim that any specific person has narcissism and should not be used to refer to any specific person as having narcissism. Permission is not granted to link to or repost this material to support an allegation or support a claim that any specific person is a narcissist. That would be an unauthorized misuse of the material and information provided.

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

What does it really take to leave an abusive marriage when your savings are gone, your credit cards are maxed out, and your body is still in survival mode? In part two of this conversation, Renee continues talking with Liz Tenuto, somatic educator, author of When the Body Speaks: How Somatic Healing Sets You Free, and known to millions as The Workout Witch.

Liz shares how financial control kept her in her marriage for months after she discovered the truth, and what happened when she reached out for couples therapy and a therapist asked if she’d ever consider just leaving. Liz and Renee each share the moment they knew they were done, why it’s so hard to accept that someone won’t change, and how red flags can feel normal when you grew up around them. Liz also talks about why her body didn’t feel safe right away after she got out, how the tech abuse continued even after she left, and how posting one somatic exercise a day, at a time she could barely get out of bed, grew into The Workout Witch.

Find Liz on Instagram at @theworkoutwitch_ (DM her the word HEAL for a free one-minute somatic exercise), get her book at https://theworkoutwitch.com/book, and find her app and courses at https://theworkoutwitch.com.

If you’re on your own narcissistic abuse recovery journey and want more support, Renee’s coaching program is a great next step. Learn more at https://covertnarcissism.com. And if this conversation helped you, make sure you’re subscribed so you never miss an episode.

The Covert Narcissism Podcast is for educational and informational purposes only. Nothing shared here should be taken as professional mental health advice. If you are in crisis or need support, please reach out to a licensed mental health professional.

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