Katharine tells Lorien not about that one other podcast but about the red scare in the US in the 1920s, 40s, and 50s (we were a little busy in the 1930s).

Sources:

Sources:

• https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-election/trump-democrats-enemies-within-rcna175628
• https://www.newsweek.com/trump-reacts-zohran-mamdani-nyc-mayor-primary-win-2090781
• https://apnews.com/article/trump-communist-judges-tariff-china-russia-cae626a3699a5411841f646a847c2c7b
• https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/retread-scare-trump-and-other-republicans-evoke-another-era-by-calling-democrats-communists
• https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/11/12/trump-rally-vermin-political-opponents/
• https://www.eisenhowerlibrary.gov/research/online-documents/mccarthyism-red-scare#:~:text=%5BThe%20American%20Heritage%20Dictionary%20gives,in%20order%20to%20suppress%20opposition.%5D
• https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/features/mccarthy-more-than-just-a-man/#:~:text=For%20several%20years%20before%20Joseph,Supreme%20Court%20Justice%2C%20William%20O.
• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCarthyism
• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COINTELPRO
• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_R._Murrow
• https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcuYybbehAo
• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communism

Lorien and Katharine explore all the cutesy ways we talk about email scams; Katharine plans her own Ocean's 11; she's Danny Ocean.

Sources:

Sources

• https://www.phishing.org/what-is-phishing
• https://www.phishing.org/history-of-phishing
• https://www.ibm.com/think/topics/social-engineering
• https://www.ibm.com/think/topics/business-email-compromise
• https://www.proofpoint.com/us/threat-reference/spear-phishing
• https://www.upguard.com/blog/types-of-phishing-attacks
• https://www.forbes.com/sites/nathanvardi/2016/02/08/how-a-tech-billionaires-company-misplaced-46-7-million-and-didnt-know-it/?sh=33fec58550b3
• https://us.norton.com/blog/emerging-threats/cybersecurity-statistics
• https://www.bluevoyant.com/knowledge-center/8-phishing-types-and-how-to-prevent-them
• https://www.checkpoint.com/cyber-hub/threat-prevention/what-is-phishing/
• https://www.websterfirst.com/blog/what-the-2024-ftc-data-tells-us-about-scam-trends/#:~:text=Fraud continues to be a,compared to the previous year.
• https://www.paubox.com/blog/elara-caring-phishing-attack-exposes-100000-patients-data
• https://www.bluevoyant.com/knowledge-center/8-devastating-phishing-attack-examples-and-prevention-tips
• https://www.hempsteadny.gov/635/Famous-Phishing-Incidents-from-History
• https://www.securityweek.com/us-government-is-investigating-messages-impersonating-trumps-chief-of-staff-susie-wiles/
• https://www.cybsafe.com/value/simulated-phishing/

Katharine takes Lorien on a spinning, potentially uninspected ride.

Sources:

• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traveling_carnival#:~:text=A%20traveling%20carnival%20(American%20English,after%20a%20period%20of%20time.
• https://www.nationwidechildrens.org/family-resources-education/700childrens/2022/07/carnival-ride-safety
• https://nypost.com/2024/10/29/world-news/horror-moment-gondola-cars-detach-from-fairground-ride-10-hur/
• https://people.com/11-year-old-reportedly-stuck-on-carnival-ride-20-minutes-8716075
• https://www.cpsc.gov/Warnings/1977/Urgent-Warning-Issued-On-Zipper-Amusement-Park-Ride
• https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2024/07/05/carnival-ride-tips-over-washington-oak-harbor/74309510007/
• https://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/05/17/ctv.martin/
• https://www.insurancejournal.com/news/national/2016/08/24/424278.htm
• https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/two-three-girls-injured-tenn-ferris-wheel-accident-released-hospital-n628836
• https://www.nbc4i.com/news/no-criminal-charges-to-be-filed-in-ohio-state-fair-ride-accident/
• https://www.cnn.com/2017/08/06/us/ohio-state-fair-ride-collapse
• https://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino/risky-rides-carnival-workers-grueling-hours-may-threaten-safety-n186966
• https://sdlawyers.com/the-dangers-of-fair-rides-what-you-need-to-know/#:~:text=Staying%20Safe%20on%20Fair%20Rides&text=Inspect%20Before%20You%20Ride%3A%20Observe,instructions%20given%20by%20ride%20operators.

Lorien tells Katharine about the baffling human tendency to do danger for fun. (Also, as a fun little bonus: Lorien immediately says the very normal word "bull" weirdly and then spends the next hour spiraling and somehow saying it a little bit different all of the many times she says it.)

Sources:

• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bull
• https://www.runningofthebulls.com/bull-runner-center/safety/?srsltid=AfmBOoqBg7P-QgNONFWhlM5-NGdB73f-TQuPsh7Xu89ZbN_kVbp-z2NH
• https://www.runningofthebulls.com/
• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bull_riding
• https://web.archive.org/web/20040227232211/http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/02/0225_040225_TVbullrider.html
• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullfighting
• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bull-leaping
• https://www.ksat.com/news/local/2024/06/05/he-loved-living-life-bandera-family-shares-memories-of-peter-de-luna-after-tragic-bull-riding-death/
• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_Fighting_Bull
• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Running_of_the_bulls
• https://adequatica.medium.com/hemingway-in-spain-6a9118d7dfb3
• https://www.runningofthebulls.com/history-of-the-bulls/running-of-the-bulls-deaths/?srsltid=AfmBOopQPOehZB1_HmrRB2xTwyvBHPh5jrWTlHUZUZMK28fCrnP7WVcb
• https://defenders.org/sites/default/files/publications/MX-wolf-attack-data-infograph.pdf
• https://www.runningofthebulls.com/bull-runner-center/official-rules/
• https://www.sanfermin.com/en/running-of-the-bulls/things-you-should-know-before-taking-part-in-the-running-of-the-bulls/
• https://www.sanfermin.com/en/running-of-the-bulls/quick-guide-what-is-the-running-of-the-bulls/
• https://www.bullrunpamplona.com/blog/runners-guide-to-navigating-pamplonas-dangerous-bull-run-route/
• https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2017/07/06/spain-running-bulls/455039001/
• https://amigoenergy.com/blog/running-of-the-bulls-history/
• https://www.wisfarmer.com/story/news/2020/09/23/not-everyone-lives-tell-encounter-bull/3492958001/

Katharine tell Lorien about a few crimes that shaped the collective consciousness. Lorien knows the names of more serial killers than she wishes to.

Sources:

- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stranger_danger

- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moors_murders

- https://www.salon.com/2023/10/21/what-80s-kids-also-remember-on-stranger-danger-satanic-panic-and-generations-of-trickle-down-fear/

- https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/may-25/etan-patz-milk-carton-kids-goes-missing

- https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/july-27/adam-walsh-is-abducted

- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Adam_Walsh

- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disappearance_of_Johnny_Gosch

- https://edition.cnn.com/interactive/2023/12/us/johnny-gosch-missing-iowa-boy-cec-cnnphotos/

- https://victimsofcrime.org/child-sexual-abuse-statistics/

- https://books.google.com/books?id=krE1y1SC3uEC&q=9780470471944&pg=PR11#v=onepage&q=9780470471944&f=false

Like Moana, the line where the sky meets the sea calls Lorien and Katharine, but they find the voice terrifying.

Sources:

- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decompression_sickness

- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scuba_diving

- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_diving

- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Boyton

- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Spence_(frogman)

- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wreck_diving#:~:text=Wreck%20diving%20is%20recreational%20diving,a%20part%20of%20the%20dive.

- https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2025/03/03/dredging-up-the-ghostly-secrets-of-slave-ships

- https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/divers-recover-ancient-shipwreck-that-sank-2600-years-ago-off-the-coast-of-spain-180985778/

- https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c8j7g3e9yvlo

- https://www.independent.co.uk/bulletin/news/shark-attack-verde-island-philippines-b2706861.html

- https://www.scuba.com/blog/the-history-of-scuba-diving/?srsltid=AfmBOopWvEFy5UhGKt1emocewMbB7yqU-Ieu9ZSrQ6TvSF2OvHf4CJ-K

- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diving_hazards#The_diving_environment

Lorien tells Katharine about rattlesnakes. Katharine assumes New Mexico is carpeted in them.

Sources:

• https://www.reddit.com/r/trailrunning/comments/v1j7k6/what_to_wear_to_protect_against_rattlesnakes/?rdt=34400
• https://www.britannica.com/animal/rattlesnake
• https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/medicine-and-dentistry/stereoscopic-vision#:~:text=Stereoscopic vision refers to the,3D) images and thus depth.
• https://www.denverhealth.org/blog/2017/01/rattlesnake-bite-prevention
• https://wildlife.utah.gov/news/utah-wildlife-news/1621-tips-to-help-you-stay-safe-and-avoid-conflict-with-rattlesnakes.html
• https://www.bannerhealth.com/healthcareblog/teach-me/invisible-rattlesnakes
• https://calpoison.org/about-rattlesnakes
• https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/snake-bites#:~:text=All snakebites should be considered,past venomous snakebites and therapy
• https://open.spotify.com/episode/2xjRKUta2YM63r14TfX5zT?si=4775791cfd664304
• https://open.spotify.com/episode/5FLM2gLO5YtgOEPwTBE5me?si=tL68CE-qQmKGg9gmfNNNwA
• https://www.healthline.com/health/rattlesnake-bite#timeline
• https://www.azcentral.com/story/entertainment/life/2024/03/23/rattlesnake-bites-tips-symptoms-prevention/72900851007/#
• https://www.azcentral.com/story/entertainment/life/2024/03/23/rattlesnake-bites-tips-symptoms-prevention/72900851007/#
• https://peecnature.org/rattlesnake-safety/#:~:text=Be aware of your surroundings,pants is a good idea.
• https://www.nwf.org/Educational-Resources/Wildlife-Guide/Reptiles/Rattlesnakes#:~:text=Rattlesnakes are found in almost every part,deserts, and they are also capable swimmers.
• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snake_handling_in_Christianity
• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Went_Hensley#Death
• https://www.messynessychic.com/2017/11/22/americas-last-snake-handling-cults/