In this powerful and eye-opening conversation, Dr. Paula Swindle helps us put words to the pain many have experienced but struggled to name. A scholar, psychologist, and trauma-informed spiritual care provider, Dr. Swindle brings deep insight into how religious systems - like Vineyard USA - can engage in spiritual bypass, silence dissent, and retraumatize survivors in the name of unity or divine authority.

We talk about how spiritual abuse often masquerades as "pastoral care," why some institutions confuse conflict avoidance with peacekeeping, and how survivors are often labeled as "gossips" or "divisive" simply for telling the truth.

If you've ever been made to feel like you're the problem for questioning abusive systems - this conversation is for you.

Guest Bio:

Paula Swindle is a licensed clinical mental health counselor/supervisor, an associate professor of counseling and the Hickory campus program coordinator for the counseling program.

Swindle’s more than 24 years of clinical work includes founding and providing counseling and consultation through the Center for Healing Religious Harm, youth and family therapy, private practice, inpatient and partial psychiatric services and designing and implementing mental health programs in medical settings such as cardiac rehabilitation, pulmonary rehabilitation and oncology services. She is passionate about interdisciplinary work in medical settings.

She serves as Vice President of the Catawba Valley Association of Counselors and Therapists and provides clinical supervision services for provisionally licensed counselors in North Carolina. Her research interests include counseling in medical settings and counseling and spirituality, particularly in religious abuse. She is also a co-host of the podcast “Sacred Intersections” with local pastor Reverend Jill Isola, which focuses on the intersection between religion and mental health, particularly in the area of religious trauma and spiritual abuse.

In the season finale of Spoiled Fruit: Faith & Power, we examine the final stage of Vineyard USA's transformation from grassroots revival to centralized authority. This chapter traces how real crisis - like the abuse scandal in Duluth - were used to justify a long-planned internal reorganization, giving a small group of leaders near-total control of the movement.

We explore how spiritual bypassing, gaslighting, and vague accusations of "gossip" were used to silence dissenters. Through the insights of Dr. Paula Swindle and Pastor Doug Warburton, we define these patterns for what they are: psychological and spiritual manipulation.

We honor the survivors - especially those in Duluth - and remember the young woman who lost her life. Because this story is about more than bylaws and policy. It's about people.

We conclude with a call to Vineyard's largest churches. If even a few demand change, the future could look different. But with 90% of churches already signed onto the new structure, the silence is deafening. Is this the version of Vineyard you still want?

Content Warning: This episode discusses spiritual abuse, systemic retraumatization, and suicide. Listen discretion is advised.

Call to Action:

Share this episode.

Contact your local Vineyard pastor.

Demand Accountability.

Call local and national media and ask them to pick up this story.

This is the full interview with Mandy Cavoto who, along with her husband Matt, were a part of the worship team at Mile High Vineyard in Denver, Colorado.

Many opens up about the spiritual abuse, the patterns of manipulation, and gaslighting she experienced there. She also reflects on her deep grief for the community she once loved, the cost of staying silent, and what healing has looked like in the aftermath. This conversation is raw, unflinching look at what happens when loyalty is weaponized and vulnerable staff members are left without protection or support.

Whether you've been following the story or are just tuning in, Mandy's story provides essential insight into the systemic failures explored throughout Spoiled Fruit.

Content Warning: This episode contains discussion of emotional, spiritual, and institutional abuse, as well as references to traumatic experiences within faith communities. Listener discretion is advised.

For resources go to www.spoiledfruitpodcast.com/resources