Have you ever stood at a mountain overlook, watched a sunset, or gazed up at a sky full of stars and thought, there has to be something more than this? On this episode of Spiritual, Not Religious, Shawn, James, and Mollie welcome Rev. Jane Cheema — Director of Spiritual Programs at Appalachia Service Project and a lifelong lover of the outdoors — for a conversation about why so many people, especially young adults, find God more easily on a trail than in a pew.

Jane shares how a childhood spent among the lakes and forests of Northern Minnesota shaped her spiritually, and tells the story of a solo winter night in the Boundary Waters that awakened a lifelong practice of paying attention to the natural world. From there, the conversation opens into some of the biggest questions facing the church's relationship with creation: What if the beauty of nature isn't the end of the spiritual journey, but the beginning? How did centuries of "dominion" theology quietly separate us from creation instead of connecting us to it? And what would it look like to reclaim stewardship not as an obligation, but as a relationship?

The group digs into rewilding the church, the difference between control and communion, and why wilderness — biblically and personally — has always been a place of disorientation and reorientation rather than danger to avoid. Mollie reflects on presence and unplugging ahead of her upcoming Camino de Santiago pilgrimage, James connects creation care to the image of God in all things, and Jane closes with Wendell Berry's poem "The Peace of Wild Things."

It's a wide-ranging, honest conversation about awe, stewardship, disconnecting from technology to reconnect with the sacred, and why getting outside might be one of the most spiritual things you do all week.

In this episode:

• Why nature so often feels spiritual — even to people who've stepped away from church
• Jane's story: growing up in Northern Minnesota and a solo Outward Bound winter night
• Rethinking "dominion" theology as relationship and stewardship instead
• Creation care as a defining value for young adults
• Rewilding the church: what worship outside the walls could look like
• Control, comfort, and why churches can be afraid of the unpredictable
• Unplugging to connect: technology, presence, and Mollie's upcoming Camino pilgrimage
• Closing reading: Wendell Berry's "The Peace of Wild Things"

Grab your sunscreen and roll the windows down — it's the summertime kickoff to Spiritual, Not Religious! Hosts Shawn, James, and Mollie use the metaphor of the road trip to dig into one of the biggest questions facing young adults and emerging adults today: am I supposed to find myself, or am I meant to be found?

In this episode, the trio shares personal road trip stories — from Mollie's mission trips to Guatemala with the UTM Wesley Foundation to James's all-night college drives — before turning to the deeper spiritual themes underneath: the pressure young adults feel to "follow their heart" and "live their truth" when they don't yet know what either means, the cultural checklist of college-career-marriage-kids, and why wandering in the wilderness (yes, like the Israelites) isn't failure — it's formation.

They talk about journaling as a spiritual practice, hearing God's "still, small voice" (1 Kings 19), the difference between perfectionism and wholeness, the role of mentors in discerning God's voice, and why faith often isn't about climbing toward God but realizing God has been pursuing you all along — through scripture's tax collectors, fishermen, and the woman at the well.

It's a conversation about trusting the process, embracing the unknown, and remembering that — whether you're on a literal road trip or just trying to figure out your twenties — you are infinitely precious and unconditionally loved for the gift you already are.

In this episode:

• Why road trips are the perfect metaphor for the spiritual life
• The problem with "just follow your heart" advice for young adults
• Wilderness wandering as discernment, not punishment
• Journaling as a spiritual practice (and giving yourself grace when it's messy)
• Hearing God in the silence (1 Kings 19 / Elijah)
• Finding vs. being found — faith as pursuit, not achievement
• A shoutout to Appalachia Service Project and the Greenbrier County, WV summer crew

Connect with us: Instagram: @spiritual.not_religious_podcast Email: spiritualnotreligiouspodcast@gmail.com

Spiritual, Not Religious is a podcast for young adults exploring the intersection of God's kingdom and the modern world.

In this episode of Spiritual, Not Religious, Shawn, James, and Mollie explore the “gospel of fear” that often shapes culture, politics, and faith communities—and why that message can be especially harmful for young and emerging adults. Together, they reflect on the difference between healthy fear and controlling fear, the ways fear can divide us into “us” and “them,” and how Jesus continually calls people beyond suspicion into compassion, relationship, and love. The conversation invites listeners to notice when fear rises, question where it comes from, and choose a faith rooted not in anxiety or control, but in neighbor-love, grace, and the deep truth that we are infinitely precious and unconditionally loved.