If you heard our full episode on 2 October, you have already had this one. This is Luke's chat with Shane Oliver on its own, for anyone who just wants the money talk.

The Reserve Bank lifted the cash rate to 4.60% on 29 September, and AMP chief economist Shane Oliver says that if he had to single out one cause, it's too much government spending. It now makes up about 28% of the economy, and he explains why cutting it would spread the pain beyond people with a mortgage, and which projects could wait a few years.

Luke asks who Australia owes its $1 trillion debt to, and who collects the interest. Then Shane weighs up One Nation's plan to let renters and mortgage holders take 3 of the 12 percentage points of their employer super as cash for three years. He thinks the real problem is that housing costs too much, and he has advice for young buyers in a falling market. Last question: will rates go up again before Christmas?

Guests: Shane Oliver

Recorded 30 September 2026, the day after the Reserve Bank lifted the cash rate to 4.60%.

Shane's comments are general information, not personal financial advice.

00:00 The RBA lifts rates to 4.60%

01:11 Why rates rose: too much demand

03:19 David Koch's challenge: is it government spending?

05:35 Which projects could wait a few years?

06:40 The public service and the NDIS

07:49 Who do we owe $1 trillion to?

09:03 No money put aside for a rainy day

09:55 Why the interest bill is climbing

10:53 Should we be in surplus right now?

11:35 Keating's 1986 banana republic warning

12:08 How big is $1 trillion, really?

13:05 Who gets the interest on the debt?

13:58 One Nation's plan to pay some super as cash

14:48 Why housing is the real problem

16:33 One Nation's migration cut: housing and jobs

17:50 Advice for young people trying to buy a home

18:31 Another rate rise before Christmas?

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