“We just have no interest in flooding the public consciousness with ugly noise.”

Justine Armour, International Chief Creative Officer at 72andSunny, joins Second Wind to talk about what great creative work looks like when everyone has access to AI.

Fresh from serving as a D&AD Jury President, Justine talks about why human craft is becoming more conspicuous, what separates genuinely creative cultures from agencies that merely talk about creativity, and why 72andSunny has no interest in joining the race to make more, cheaper content.

We get into what 72andSunny has learned from working with e.l.f., why strategists and creatives should be “getting up in each other’s shit,” and Justine’s five ingredients for great work: simple, surprising, audacious, craft and energy.

Justine also explains why Australian creatives tend to spend longer mastering their craft, why she once turned down an ECD opportunity because she didn’t think she’d made enough great work yet, and the Guinness “Surfer” ad that changed her understanding of what advertising could be.

Plus: AI and creativity, D&AD, e.l.f., Wieden+Kennedy, creative leadership, agency culture, optimism without toxic positivity, tall poppy syndrome, and why Justine remains determined not to be average.

Justine Armour is International Chief Creative Officer at 72andSunny.

Second Wind is a podcast about what happens after you’ve made it — and what the best people in advertising, design and creativity learn next.

Search Second Wind by AKA.

#Advertising #CreativeLeadership #AI

AI isn’t changing marketing. It’s changing what a brand is.

In this episode of Second Wind, Craig Elimeliah, Chief Creative Officer at Code and Theory, introduces a concept we haven’t been able to stop thinking about since recording: brand refounding.

For years, companies have talked about brand transformation. Craig argues we’re entering something much bigger. AI isn’t simply making marketers faster. It’s forcing organizations to rethink the foundations of how brands are built, governed and remembered.

We explore why AI exposes disconnected organizations, why brand consistency becomes more valuable as content scales, why consumers are becoming dramatically harder to fool, and why creative leaders are increasingly responsible for shaping entire businesses, not just campaigns.

In this conversation:

• What “brand refounding” actually means

• Why AI is exposing weak brand systems

• The difference between brand transformation and brand refounding

• Why speed, scale and brand no longer have to compete

• How AI creates organizational memory instead of disconnected campaigns

• Why creative leaders are becoming business leaders

• The future of agencies, brands and creative operating systems

• What every CMO should understand before investing in another AI tool

Craig Elimeliah is the Chief Creative Officer at Code and Theory, one of the world’s leading digital transformation and creative technology companies. Throughout his career, he’s helped shape products, platforms and brand systems for many of the world’s most influential organizations.

Second Wind is hosted by Gully Flowers and Jake Neske, founders of AKA. Each episode features candid conversations with the creative leaders, CMOs, founders and operators shaping the future of advertising, branding, design, AI and business.

If you work in marketing, advertising, brand strategy, creative leadership, AI or digital transformation, this conversation will give you a new framework for thinking about what comes next.

Most products are designed for someone who doesn’t exist.

The average user.

David Vogel, Executive Experience Director at Hypersolid and former AKQA design leader, argues that the idea of a “normal” human has quietly shaped everything from schools and workplaces to digital products, customer experiences, and AI. The problem is that normal was never real.

In this episode of Second Wind, David joins Gully Flowers and Kerrie Finch to explore why neurodiversity changes the way we think about accessibility, why crash test dummies reveal a deeper flaw in modern design, and why designing for edge cases often creates better experiences for everyone.

The conversation also looks ahead. David explains why ChatGPT is only the earliest interface for AI, why brands should be careful about outsourcing customer relationships to AI platforms, and how intelligent experiences could reshape products, retail, and personalization over the next decade.

• Why there is no such thing as a “normal” user

• How ADHD and neurodiversity challenge traditional design thinking

• What crash test dummies teach us about accessibility

• Why designing for edge cases creates better products for everyone

• Why ChatGPT is only the beginning of AI

• How brands can embrace AI without giving away the customer relationship

• What intelligent experiences could mean for the future of retail, work, and customer experience

Guest: David Vogel, Executive Experience Director at Hypersolid

Hosts: Gully Flowers and Kerrie Finch