Most products are designed for someone who doesn’t exist.

The average user.

David Vogel, Executive Experience Director at Hypersolid and former AKQA design leader, argues that the idea of a “normal” human has quietly shaped everything from schools and workplaces to digital products, customer experiences, and AI. The problem is that normal was never real.

In this episode of Second Wind, David joins Gully Flowers and Kerrie Finch to explore why neurodiversity changes the way we think about accessibility, why crash test dummies reveal a deeper flaw in modern design, and why designing for edge cases often creates better experiences for everyone.

The conversation also looks ahead. David explains why ChatGPT is only the earliest interface for AI, why brands should be careful about outsourcing customer relationships to AI platforms, and how intelligent experiences could reshape products, retail, and personalization over the next decade.

• Why there is no such thing as a “normal” user

• How ADHD and neurodiversity challenge traditional design thinking

• What crash test dummies teach us about accessibility

• Why designing for edge cases creates better products for everyone

• Why ChatGPT is only the beginning of AI

• How brands can embrace AI without giving away the customer relationship

• What intelligent experiences could mean for the future of retail, work, and customer experience

Guest: David Vogel, Executive Experience Director at Hypersolid

Hosts: Gully Flowers and Kerrie Finch