show notes

Have you ever reached the middle of a sales call and realized you spent most of the meeting just trying to figure out what the buyer actually wanted?

If the buyer isn't clear on why they're there, or the salesperson doesn't take control of the conversation, valuable time can disappear fast. And on a cold call, you may not even get enough time for a second sentence.

In this episode, Dr. BJ Allen and I break down how to open discovery calls and prospecting calls with more clarity and relevance.

We talk about setting the agenda, getting buyers prepared before the meeting, using trigger events to make cold calls more personal, and when social proof can actually help.

Starting Discovery Calls With a Clear Agenda

• A discovery call should not take five or ten minutes just to figure out why everyone is there. The buyer should know the purpose of the meeting before it starts.
• A simple agenda can set the tone: why we're meeting, what we'll cover, and what we want to accomplish by the end.
• Asking the buyer if the agenda sounds right gives them ownership of the conversation instead of making them feel like they're there to be talked at.
• Coming prepared also gives you more time to focus on the customer's actual problem instead of explaining everything about yourself.

Making the Buyer Part of the Conversation

• Sending useful information before the call can help the buyer come prepared instead of expecting the salesperson to explain everything from scratch.
• A short self-serve demo can cover basic product information before the meeting, leaving more time to focus on the customer's specific use case.
• The goal is to make the conversation feel tailored to the buyer rather than like another standard sales presentation.
• Most importantly, the call should end with clarity about what happens next so neither side is left wondering where things stand.

Using Trigger Events to Open Cold Calls

• A cold call becomes much stronger when there is a real reason for making it. A new sales leader, company expansion, acquisition, or new product launch can all create an opening.
• The trigger is only useful when it connects to a problem that person is likely dealing with.
• Instead of asking for ten seconds and launching into a pitch, lead with something that shows you understand what is happening in their world.
• That relevance can turn a cold call from a fishing expedition into a conversation worth having.

When Social Proof Actually Works

• Social proof isn't automatically a good opener. The real question is whether the example is relevant to the person you're calling.
• A competitor's success can create that relevance and even introduce a sense of FOMO when the prospect is facing the same market pressure.
• AI can help sellers research competitors, case studies, testimonials, and other signals that reveal what matters to a prospect before making the call.
• The goal isn't to use AI to blast out another generic message. It's to use research to sound like someone who understands the customer's problem.

“Use it to be able to make you sound as a consultant and as someone in tune with their problem.” — Donald C. Kelly

Resources

If you're looking for sales courseware with an up-to-date textbook and an AI-based simulation, visit The Sales Evangelist.

You believe your students need a sales program. Your dean needs a different reason to say yes.

That's the gap we dug into with Dr. Travis Simkins, Department Chair of Marketing, Entrepreneurship, Sales & Analytics at Southern Utah University.

Travis took his department from two and a half faculty members to sixteen in under three years, and he walked us through exactly how he got administration to say yes to a new sales major.

Why SUU Built a Sales Program

• Travis explains how marketing at SUU used to be folded into other departments, with almost no dedicated faculty.
• He read an article from the B2B Institute that changed his thinking. It argued the next hundred years of marketing would be built on B2B, not B2C.
• That idea became the pitch he used to convince the university to give marketing its own home.

Turning a Minor Into the Fastest-Growing Program on Campus

• Travis walks through how the Mesa department combined marketing, entrepreneurship, sales, and analytics under one roof.
• He shares how COVID actually helped the case for a sales major, because it proved marketing and sales careers could work remotely and pay well.
• Within three years, the department grew from two and a half faculty members to sixteen.

How to Sell a New Major to Administration

• Travis breaks down the two things that move a department chair or provost: hard numbers and education.
• He talks about showing administrators real job listings and real starting salaries, not just enthusiasm.
• We also talk about how sales skills transfer across industries once a student learns the fundamentals.

Building a Pipeline of Students

• Travis explains how paid student "sales ambassadors" recruit other students into the major.
• He shares how SUU built concurrent enrollment agreements with local high schools, so students can earn college sales credit before they graduate.
• These recruiting efforts are what took the minor from 50 students to 75, and kept it growing.

Bringing Industry Partners Into the Classroom

• Travis describes the sales advisory board SUU built, made up of paying industry professionals who help shape the curriculum.
• He talks about "Sales Never Fails," a campus competition that gets local and regional companies involved as judges and sponsors.
• He also shares why SUU built a sales psychology course after watching a talented graduate burn out within a year.

Managing the Space Between Faculty and Administration

• Travis reflects on the hardest part of being a department chair: balancing what faculty need with what administration wants.
• His advice for professors pitching a new program: bring data, bring a plan for measuring success, and make the case in terms your dean already cares about.

"The nice thing about sales is you can learn to be a better salesperson. Once you learn how to be a good salesperson, you can sell anything in any industry if you're trained on the specific knowledge." — Dr. Travis Simkins

Resources

• Learn more about the Marketing, Entrepreneurship, Sales & Analytics Department at Southern Utah University
• Connect with Dr. Travis Simkins or find him on LinkedIn
• Explore the courseware Donald and BJ co-authored: Professional Selling and Advanced Selling and Sales Management
• Visit the Sales 101 podcast website for more episodes

show notes

What’s the real difference between B2C and B2B sales? Do students need to go into B2B to build a successful career? And are we teaching the right principles for both?

These are the kinds of questions sales professors face in the classroom, especially when many students start their careers in B2C roles.

We invited Patrick Carter, a retail sales leader, to break it down. He shares how he’s building and leading successful B2C sales teams and what professors should be preparing students for in today’s sales environment.

Meet Patrick Carter

• Patrick Carter is a sales leader and enablement strategist with over 20 years of experience building high-performing retail sales teams and driving revenue growth. He focuses on creating the systems, playbooks, and coaching structures that help sales organizations scale.
• He’s known for a coaching-first leadership style that builds trust, improves individual performance, and creates a culture where accountability and growth go hand in hand.
• Patrick operates at both the strategic and day-to-day level, developing the vision while staying close enough to execution to know when to step in and when to let his team take the lead.

B2B vs B2C: What’s the Real Difference?

• At its core, retail is business to consumers. You’re selling directly to the end user. Sounds simple, but it’s not.
• The biggest difference comes down to speed. In B2B, you might have weeks or months to build relationships. In retail, you may have minutes. Customers often walk in knowing exactly what they want, which means the real skill is how you respond in that moment.

You’re Not Just an Order Taker

• Patrick makes one thing clear. The website already has the information. Your role is to bring knowledge.
• That means asking better questions, understanding what the customer actually needs, and guiding them beyond what they came in for.
• Anyone can process a transaction. A real salesperson builds trust fast and adds value early.

Where the Real Money Happens

• Retail sales can be more lucrative than most people think. With the right skillset and experience, income can grow significantly over time.
• But it’s not just about the first sale. It’s about relationships. When customers trust you, they come back. They bring others. And that’s where long-term success is built.
• If you’re teaching sales, this episode may challenge how you think about preparing students for the real world.

“Your job isn’t to sell products. Your job is to bring knowledge. The website already has the information.” — Patrick Carter

Resources

Want to learn more about B2C sales and how to apply it in your classroom or career? Connect with Patrick Carter on LinkedIn and follow his insights.

Connect with Dr. BJ Allen and Donald C. Kelly on LinkedIn to chat about this episode or ask any questions.

I’m sure you’ve realized by now that the real sales world and classroom sales are nowhere near the same. So, how can you help your students bridge that gap and prepare them to succeed in the field? To help answer this, we invited Kim Ruggerio, sales professor at Arizona State University (ASU). She’s here to share insights on transforming sales education and better equipping your students for the real world.

Meet Kim Ruggerio

• Kim Ruggerio is a trailblazer in sales education with over four decades of experience at industry leaders like AT&T and Verizon.
• After a successful corporate career, she brought her expertise to academia and launched Arizona State University’s first professional sales class nearly 18 years ago.
• Known for her dynamic, student-focused teaching style, Kim emphasizes confidence, creative outreach, and practical skills while encouraging students to engage with industry professionals and build valuable connections.

Building a Practical Sales Curriculum (00:02:23 - 00:03:40)

• Kim highlights the importance of bringing real-world experience into the classroom, creating a course that students consistently value for its practical approach.

Overcoming Self-Doubt and Building Confidence (00:03:41 - 00:05:35)

• She addresses common “sales reluctance” and structures her teams so students gain confidence early by reaching out to senior executives for interviews.

The Team Interview Project (00:05:35 - 00:07:12)

• Students work in groups to secure and interview senior sales leaders, while Kim guides them to ask creative, meaningful questions that go beyond the basics.

Breaking Sales Stereotypes and Facing Challenges (00:07:15 - 00:10:00)

• She discusses how these projects shift students’ perceptions of sales and helps them overcome confidence and outreach anxiety to be ready for real-world selling.

Success Stories: Unique Interview Wins (00:10:07 - 00:12:56)

• Kim shares standout student achievements, including interviews and live performances with executives at major companies, some leading directly to job offers.

The Power of Creative Outreach (00:12:56 - 00:15:12)

• She emphasizes research, personalization, and preparation, showing how thoughtful outreach leads to stronger connections and real opportunities.

Research Techniques for Reaching Executives (00:15:13 - 00:17:24)

• Kim explains how students can use LinkedIn, company resources, and in-depth questions to go beyond information easily found online.

Involving Industry Leaders in the Classroom (00:17:26 - 00:22:12)

• She highlights the value of advisory boards and guest speakers in providing mentorship, networking, and job opportunities for students.

Preparing Students for Real-World Sales Careers (00:22:13 - 00:26:02)

• Kim shares examples of how her outcomes-focused approach results in career opportunities and executive-level connections for students.

Key Lesson: Don’t Be Afraid to Aim Higher (00:24:02 - 00:26:07)

• She recounts a student’s interaction with a sales VP who encouraged them to reach out directly to the CEO, reinforcing the importance of aiming higher in professional ambitions.

“If you’re not prepared to have a proper conversation with a client, you’re doing both yourself and your customer a disservice.” – Kim Ruggerio

Resources

Reach out to Kim Ruggerio on LinkedIn, or send her an email at kim.ruggerio@asu.edu.

In this video, we sit down with Rich Kuzmeski to discuss his passion for sales and teaching. As a seasoned sales professional, Rich shares insights from his extensive experience in the field, offering valuable perspectives on how to sell effectively. This discussion is a must-watch for anyone interested in a sales career, providing foundational knowledge for sales success.

We delve into how educators can actively prepare students for real-world sales challenges, moving beyond rote memorization and final exams. Rich Kuzmeki shares invaluable insights into experiential learning strategies that facilitate student success, enhancing both confidence and competency in the field of sales.

Creating Engaging Role Plays for Practical Learning

1. Role plays designed to mirror real-life scenarios empower students to create their own scripts, fostering ownership and individual learning.

2. Students research various industries thoroughly, refining their understanding and relevant questioning techniques necessary for success in sales.

3. Structured role plays focus on the discovery call process, allowing students to practice asking impactful questions rather than simply pitching a product.

The Importance of Listening and Discovery in Sales

1. Students often struggle with the fear of silence during sales calls, making it crucial to build their comfort with open-ended questioning and attentive listening.

2. Emphasizing a 70/30 listening-to-talking ratio teaches students that effective selling is rooted in understanding customer needs rather than just presenting.

3. By structuring prompts to encourage follow-up questions, students learn to drive conversations deeper, uncovering critical insights necessary for making meaningful connections.

Extending Learning Beyond the Classroom

1. Participation in internal and external sales competitions provides students with hands-on experiences that translate classroom knowledge into actionable skills in real-world situations.

2. Establishing connections with industry representatives and creating opportunities for networking prepares students for internships and jobs after graduation.

3. Achievements in competitions bolster student resumes while enhancing the overall credibility of the sales program, attracting more prospective students and professionals to engage.

Homework Challenge or Action Steps

1. Challenge students to design their own sales role play based on a chosen industry, incorporating both questions and anticipated answers to practice smooth dialogue.

2. Encourage educators to implement experiential learning techniques, such as guest speakers and live events, to enrich the educational experience beyond textbooks.

"Be honest. It's way easier to remember the truth than it is to remember what you may or may not have made up." -Rich Kuzmeki.

Timestamps

00:00 - Introduction

01:20 - The Role of Role Plays in Sales Education

12:15 - Overcoming Challenges in Role Plays

22:30 - Extending Learning Through Competitions

34:40 - Closing Thoughts and Key Takeaways

Resources

● [Oklahoma State University Sales Center](https://business.okstate.edu/sales)

● [Sales Competitions Overview](https://business.okstate.edu/sales/competitions)

Subscribe to our SubStack for more sales insights and assignments - https://sales101b2bsalesclassroom.substack.com/

Credits

Produced by bluëmango | STUDIOS. Music by SoundStripe. Thanks for tuning in!