Episode 48: Show Notes

About This Episode of the Revitalize My Church Podcast

In this episode, Bart queues up an AI overview of the new book that he co-authored with Nathan Bryant. The book is called "The Five Big Rocks of Church Revitalization."

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Hosts: Bart Blair (Director of Church Revitalization, Assist Church Expansion) & Nathan Bryant (Executive Director, Assist)

• Your church facility is a ministry tool, not the main thing. Culture change drives revitalization, but your building can either support that work or quietly work against it.
• Decluttering costs nothing but time and a few hard conversations. Old storage rooms, outdated equipment, and decades of donated furniture send the wrong signal to new families.
• Curb appeal, signage, and restrooms shape a guest’s opinion before they ever sit down for the service. First impressions start in the parking lot.
• Decor should reflect your church’s future, not its past. Outdated photos, doilies, and dated furniture can quietly tell newcomers this isn’t a place for them.

If you are leading a small church through plateau, decline, or revitalization, you already know there is never enough time or money to fix everything at once. So when it comes to your building, where do you actually focus? In this episode, Bart Blair sits down with Nathan Bryant, Executive Director of Assist Church Expansion, to talk through how your facility either helps or hurts your revitalization efforts, and how to make smart, low cost improvements without overspending or stepping on toes.

You will walk away with a practical lens for evaluating your own building. From the parking lot to the restrooms to your children’s ministry space, you will learn what first time guests notice, what it communicates to them, and what you can change this month without a building campaign.

Yes, but not in the way most pastors assume. Bart and Nathan are both church planters who spent years in portable, rented spaces, so they bring a unique perspective on this. Your building is a ministry tool that God has given you to steward, not the main driver of revitalization. The real change has to happen in the culture and mission of your church. But your facility either removes barriers for newcomers or creates them, which means it absolutely plays a supporting role in whether people stick around long enough to experience that culture change in the first place.

Most churches land in one of two ditches. Some pastors believe a new coat of paint or a renovated lobby will single handedly turn the church around, so they pour disproportionate energy and money into the building. Others swing the opposite direction and barely notice their facility at all, because they have grown comfortable in the space over many years. Nathan compares it to having friends over to your house. You do not notice the mess until you know guests are coming. The goal is a healthy middle: invest where it actually removes barriers for guests, and do not pretend a building project will fix a culture problem.

Decluttering is the single highest impact, lowest cost change you can make to your facility, but it requires patience and permission. Many churches have rooms full of decades old equipment, holiday decor, and furniture that nobody is using, simply because no one felt authorized to get rid of it. Nathan shares a real example of a church that cleared out a room full of decades old Christmas pageant costumes after getting buy in from longtime members, freeing up usable classroom and office space.

• Get permission first. Many longtime members simply do not realize they have authority to let things go. Ask before you act.
• Make it a team event. Host a workday and get people hands on in the proc...

Most struggling churches assume they need the same kind of help. Terry Long says that assumption is one of the first things that has to go.

Terry serves as the Church Health and Revitalization Strategist for the Baptist State Convention of North Carolina. He joined the state convention in April 2020, holds a doctorate of ministry in church revitalization from Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary, and has spent two decades in vocational ministry. In this conversation with host Bart Blair, Terry walks through the framework NC Baptists uses to assess struggling churches, why revitalization and reconstruction require two completely different responses, and what pastors consistently get wrong when they come asking for help.

WHAT YOU WILL HEAR IN THIS EPISODE

• Why NC Baptists developed a ten-question church assessment, and what it is actually designed to do

• The two categories struggling churches fall into: revitalization candidates and reconstruction candidates, and why treating them the same is a mistake

• What NC Baptists looks for when assessing a church: missional engagement, discipleship health, leadership development, and baptism trends

• Two real stories of NC Baptist churches that turned around, including a church of 30 senior adults that went from no pastor and no direction to 10 baptisms in a single Sunday

• Why revitalization has to start with the pastor before it can start with the church

• The statistic that stopped Terry cold early in his ministry: 92 percent of pastors have never been personally discipled

• Why the come-and-see model of church no longer works, and what has to replace it

• Why Terry believes the decline of cultural Christianity is not bad news for the church

A KEY QUOTE FROM THIS EPISODE

"I actually think this is a great thing. I know a Lord that said we're supposed to go and make disciples of all nations. I actually think this is the Lord refining his church to get back to do what we were supposed to do in the first place."

-- Terry Long

FOR THE PASTOR WHO IS LISTENING

If your church has been plateaued or declining for years and you are not sure whether you need a coach, a partner church, or something else entirely, this episode will help you figure out which kind of help actually fits your situation. Terry breaks down the difference in plain terms and gives you a framework for thinking clearly about where your church is and what it needs next.

And if you have been carrying the weight of a church that feels like it might be past the point of no return, the story of a 30-person church of senior adults who saw 10 baptisms six months into a turnaround process is worth hearing.

RESOURCES MENTIONED

• NC Baptists Church Revitalization: https://ncbaptist.org/ministries/church-revitalization

• North American Mission Board Replant: https://www.namb.net/church-replanting/

• Reclaiming Glory by Mark Clifton

• Embers to a Flame by Harry Reeder

• Church revitalization resources by Tom Chaney, Orlando Baptists

ABOUT REVITALIZE MY CHURCH

Revitalize My Church is hosted by Bart Blair and Nathan Bryant. We create practical, biblically grounded content for pastors and church leaders who are navigating decline, plateau, and the hard work of leading a church toward health. New episodes release on the first and fifteenth of each month.

Subscribe so you never miss an episode, and if this conversation was helpful, share it with a pastor who needs it. That is the best thing you can do to help more church leaders find this content.

Visit us at revitalizemy.church

Are you leading a church through revitalization and running into resistance at every turn? You are not alone. Resistance is one of the most common challenges pastors face when trying to move a church from where it is to where God wants it to be. The question is not whether you will face it. The question is whether you know how to handle it well.

In Episode 45, Bart Blair and Nathan Bryant cover keys 3 through 6 of their six-key framework for handling resistance in church revitalization.

Key 3: Communicate the Vision Often and Clearly

Vision is your most powerful tool for overcoming resistance. People do not want to be managed. They want to be inspired. Cast a compelling, biblically grounded vision that answers four questions: Why are we doing this? Who are we? What are we going to do? And where are we going? Bart and Nathan talk about why vision leaks, why repetition is leadership and not redundancy, and how to use testimonies and stories of life change to reinforce the vision you are casting.

Key 4: Honor the Past While Moving Forward

Most resistance in a church revitalization is tied to something with real historical significance. People are being asked to let go of something they have valued for years, sometimes decades. Bart and Nathan share practical ways to celebrate what God has done in the church's history, allow people to grieve what is changing, and become the kind of pastor who knows the church's story well enough to carry it forward with honor. The goal is to be married to the mission without being married to the methodology.

Key 5: Know When to Push and When to Pause

Pace and timing matter as much as direction. Going too fast causes people to fall off. Going too slow kills momentum and loses your window. Bart and Nathan talk about how to identify low-hanging fruit for early wins, how to build a team that can read the room, why a well-timed pause can actually accelerate change, and why squandering momentum is just as dangerous as moving too quickly.

Key 6: Know When Resistance Has Become Conflict

Not all resistance is the same, and the way you respond to pushback needs to change when resistance turns into conflict. Bart and Nathan walk through the red flags that signal the shift, including when people stop questioning a decision and start questioning your right to make it, and when individuals begin organizing others around their opposition rather than bringing concerns directly to leadership. When that happens, you need a different set of tools.

Episode 43: Keys 1 and 2 for Handling Resistance in Church Revitalization

Episode 44: Grieving the Loss of the Church You Love, featuring author and pastor Larry Davis

Episodes 39 and 41: Six Keys to Managing Conflict in a Church Revitalization

The Revitalize My Church Podcast helps pastors of smaller, struggling churches navigate change and reorient to a new and healthy future. Hosted by Bart Blair, Director of Church Revitalization for Assist Church Expansion, and Nathan Bryant, Executive Director of Assist Church Expansion.

Subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts. If this episode has been helpful, leave a rating and a review, and share it with a pastor who needs it.

Visit us at RevitalizeMyChurch.com for show notes, resources, and more.

Can a dying church really come back to life? Pastor Larry Davis says yes, but not the way most revitalization books tell you.

In this episode of the Revitalize My Church Podcast, Bart Blair sits down with Larry Davis, author of "Grieving the Loss of the Church You Love" and Associational Missionary for the Eastern Baptist Association. Larry has personally led three church revitalizations and has assisted or consulted with more than 110 churches. His perspective on revitalization is unlike anything most pastors have read or heard.

Most books on church revitalization assume every church should live. Larry challenges that assumption directly. Drawing from Scripture, the Kubler-Ross stages of grief, and more than two decades of hands-on revitalization work, Larry makes the case that a congregation cannot embrace something new until it has genuinely grieved what was. That single principle changes everything about how a pastor should approach a struggling church.

WHAT YOU WILL LEARN IN THIS EPISODE

Why the local church has a natural life cycle, and what Scripture says about it
How the five stages of grief (denial, bargaining, anger, depression, and acceptance) show up in a declining congregation
Why trying to lead change before a church is ready almost always backfires
How Larry navigated fierce resistance at Grace Seaford Church, including angry members at Wednesday night suppers
What the "meeting before the meeting" is and why it is never optional
How cascading communication works and why skipping the middle ring is one of the costliest mistakes in revitalization
What resurrection actually looks like for a dying church, and why it is different for every congregation
How to use a simple EKG framework to honestly assess the health of your church
Why reaching out for help early dramatically increases a church's chances of genuine renewal

THE FIVE STAGES OF GRIEF IN A LOCAL CHURCH

Denial: The church refuses to admit there is a problem. Bargaining: The church tries to fix itself without actually changing. New sign letters. A younger pastor. A new program. Anger: Blame gets directed at the pastor, the leadership, or the community around the church. Depression: The congregation begins to realize the decline is real. Larry explains the important difference between secondary depression and preparatory depression. Acceptance: The congregation finally becomes open to whatever God wants to do next. This is the threshold of resurrection.

ABOUT LARRY DAVIS

Larry Davis spent nine years as an aerospace engineer before answering the call to full-time ministry in 2003. Over 26 years of vocational ministry, he has personally led three church revitalizations, co-planted Grace Mardela Church, and has assisted or consulted with more than 110 churches. He currently serves as Senior Pastor of Grace Seaford Church in Seaford, Delaware, and as Associational Missionary for the Eastern Baptist Association.

His book "Grieving the Loss of the Church You Love" is available on Amazon and Barnes and Noble.

Website: https://www.pastorlarrydavis.com Speaking and consulting inquiries: pastor@graceseaford.org

BOOKS AND RESOURCES MENTIONED

Grieving the Loss of the Church You Love by Larry Davis: https://www.amazon.com/Grieving-Loss-Church-You-Love/dp/1597557811
Autopsy of a Deceased Church by Thom Rainer
Transforming the Rural Church in America by Shannon O'Dell
Our Iceberg Is Melting by John Kotter
On Death and Dying by Elizabeth Kubler-Ross

ABOUT REVITALIZE MY CHURCH

The Revitalize My Church Podcast is hosted by Bart Blair, Director of Church Revitalization at Assist Church Expansion. New episodes release on the 1st and 15th of every month. The podcast exists to help pastors of smaller and struggling churches navigate revitalization with practical, biblically grounded guidance.

Subscribe...

Resistance is one of the most common and discouraging challenges a pastor faces when leading a church through revitalization. You cast the vision, you lay out the plan, and then someone pushes back. Or a group pushes back. And suddenly it feels like the people you are trying to help are the very ones standing in your way.
In this episode of the Revitalize My Church Podcast, Bart Blair and Nathan Bryant dig into what resistance actually is, why it is completely normal, and how to respond to it in a way that keeps the temperature in your church manageable. This is Part 1 of a two-part series on handling resistance in church revitalization, covering the first two of six practical keys.

If you missed the previous two episodes on managing conflict in a church revitalization, go back and listen to Episodes 39 and 41 first. Resistance and conflict are related, but they are not the same thing, and understanding the difference will change how you respond to both.

RESISTANCE IS NOT A SIGN YOU ARE DOING SOMETHING WRONG

If you are leading your church through meaningful change and not experiencing any resistance, you are probably not changing anything that really matters. Resistance is the natural result of inertia. People who have worshiped, served, and sacrificed in a church for 20, 30, or 40 years have deep roots. Even people who say they want change often do not fully realize what they are agreeing to until the process is underway.
Resistance in a revitalizing church often comes from a few different places. Some people fear loss. They are not necessarily against the change itself, they are grieving what they might have to give up. Others are carrying the wounds of past attempts that did not work out. They tried things before, it did not go the way they hoped, and now their guard is up because they do not want to feel that sense of failure again. Others simply do not trust the leader enough yet to take a big step in a new direction. And some feel, even unintentionally, that the push for change is a criticism of everything they have built and sacrificed for over the years.
All of that is worth understanding before you decide how to respond.

WHAT MOSES CAN TEACH PASTORS ABOUT LEADING THROUGH RESISTANCE

Moses led a people who had cried out to God for deliverance for generations, received it through miraculous signs and wonders, crossed the Red Sea, and then spent most of the journey through the wilderness complaining. They wanted the promised land immediately. What they got was a long, hard desert walk.

Sound familiar?

A few things stand out from Moses as a model for pastors navigating resistance. The people said yes to the journey without fully understanding what they were signing up for. Moses did not always keep his cool, but he remained committed to the mission. He interceded for the people even when they deserved judgment, because they were not his adversaries, they were his people. And Moses did not have the full plan from day one. God revealed it over time, and Moses had to adjust along the way.

Revitalization is not that different.

KEY 1 - DO NOT PERSONALIZE IT, CONTEXTUALIZE IT

The first key to navigating resistance is refusing to take it personally. When a pastor becomes anxious or defensive in response to pushback, that anxiety spreads through the congregation and raises the temperature. Your defensiveness will escalate the situation faster than almost anything else.
Proverbs 19:11 says that wisdom yields patience and that it is to one's glory to overlook an offense. That is not weakness. That is strategic leadership.

Most resistance is not really about you. It is about the concept of change, the fear of loss, or the memories tied to something you are asking people to let go of. At the same time, pastors need to guard against making it feel personal to the people resisting. When change...

1. The Oikos Principle works everywhere: 95% of people come to faith through relationships with the 8-15 people in their "front row" - their coworkers, neighbors, close friends, and family members who watch how they live.

2. Church obesity kills mission focus: Most churches are programmatically obese, offering so many "good things" that the Great Commission gets crowded out. The average church attender has only 5 hours per week to give.

3. Outreach never happens naturally: Without intentionality, nurture always wins over evangelism. Churches must deliberately elevate the Great Commission first and often, or it will never take root.

4. Start with a simple strategy: Make a list of your 8-15 people, pray daily, invest in relationships intentionally, then invite them into environments where faith conversations happen naturally.

Are you struggling to keep your church focused on reaching lost people? Do you feel like your congregation is more interested in adding new ministries than making new disciples? You're not alone.

In this episode of Revitalize My Church, Bart sits down with Tom Mercer, author of 8 to 15: The World Is Smaller Than You Think and pastor of High Desert Church for 38 years, to discuss why most churches have lost focus on the only thing Jesus commanded us to do between His advents - make disciples.

Tom shares candidly about the challenge every pastor faces: "It's not that local churches don't do good things, but we do so many good things that the only great thing Jesus asked of us doesn't have any room to flourish."

This insight is particularly crucial for small church pastors who are constantly pressured to add more programs, more ministries, and more activities to compete with larger churches in their community.

The word "oikos" is a Greek term meaning "house" or "household" that appears throughout the New Testament. But Tom explains it means more than just a physical dwelling - it describes your relational world.

The Oikos principle teaches that every person has 8-15 people in the "front row seats" of their life - people who:

• Watch how you live

• Listen to what you say

• Include coworkers, neighbors, close friends, classmates, and family members

• Are supernaturally and strategically placed in your life by God

The data is undeniable: Tom has asked hundreds of thousands of Christians across five continents, multiple denominations, and diverse cultures one question: "Was the primary reason you gave your heart to Christ because of someone in your oikos?"

The answer? Virtually every hand in the room goes up, every time.

Tom shares the practical five-step strategy High Desert Church used to keep thousands of people focused on the Great Commission:

Step 1: Make a List

Help your congregation identify by name the 8-15 people in their front row. "It's only a dream until you write it down, then it becomes a goal," Tom explains, quoting NFL Hall of Famer Emmett Smith.

Step 2: Pray Daily

Encourage consistent prayer for these specific people by name. Most believers never take this step.

Step 3: Invest in Relationships

Be intentional about spending time with and serving these people. This is where most invitation strategies fail - people won't invite those they h...

Hosts: Bart Blair (Director of Church Revitalization, Assist Church Expansion) & Nathan Bryant (Executive Director, Assist)

1. Check your own heart first - Before addressing conflict, examine your motivations, attitudes, and potential contributions to the problem (Matthew 7:3-5)

2. Deal openly, not publicly - Address conflict transparently with appropriate parties in proper settings, never air dirty laundry from the pulpit (Proverbs 27:5-6)

3. Seek win-win solutions - Aim for outcomes that strengthen relationships and unity, not just "winning" the argument (Philippians 2:3-4)

4. Bring in outside help early - Don't wait until conflict becomes unredeemable; involve trusted third-party mediators from your network

5. Not every conflict ends in win-win - Sometimes the healthiest resolution is helping someone find a better-fit church where they can thrive

6. 94% of pastors report positive outcomes - When handled properly, conflict leads to better relationships, clarity, and stronger unity

1. Check your own heart first - Before addressing conflict, examine your motivations, attitudes, and potential contributions to the problem (Matthew 7:3-5)

2. Deal openly, not publicly - Address conflict transparently with appropriate parties in proper settings, never air dirty laundry from the pulpit (Proverbs 27:5-6)

3. Seek win-win solutions - Aim for outcomes that strengthen relationships and unity, not just "winning" the argument (Philippians 2:3-4)

4. Bring in outside help early - Don't wait until conflict becomes unredeemable; involve trusted third-party mediators from your network

5. Not every conflict ends in win-win - Sometimes the healthiest resolution is helping someone find a better-fit church where they can thrive

6. 94% of pastors report positive outcomes - When handled properly, conflict leads to better relationships, clarity, and stronger unity

In part two of this essential series on managing conflict during church revitalization, Bart Blair and Nathan Bryant tackle the final three keys that every pastor needs to successfully navigate congregational disputes and maintain unity.

Scripture Foundation: "Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?" - Matthew 7:3-5

Before entering any conflict situation, church leaders must:

Stop making assumptions - We often walk into conflict having already decided what the other person thinks, why they're upset, and what their motivations are - usually all negative assumptions

Check your attitude - Are you viewing this as a headache to manage or an opportunity to build better unity?

Believe the best - 1 Corinthians 13 reminds us that love "believes all things" - enter the room assuming the best about the other person

Examine your role - Have you communicated clearly? Made promises you didn't keep? Created unrealistic expectations? You may have contributed to the conflict without realizing it

Even when conflict appears to be about decisions, programs, or practical matters, it almost always becomes relational. People...