What does it really mean to live an integrated faith life? In this powerful bonus episode, Father John Gribowich sits down with Cindy Black, a 26-year veteran of Catholic ministry, for an intimate conversation about discovering God in unexpected places and people.

Cindy shares her compelling journey from a "porta crib Catholic" who rarely attended Mass to becoming a passionate minister serving in youth ministry, diocesan leadership, Catholic radio, and parish evangelization. But this isn't just another conversion story, it's a profound exploration of how God shows up in bar conversations with atheists, friendships with those the church has wounded, and the sacred space of simply listening without agenda.

Through raw honesty and vulnerability, Cindy and Father John tackle the messy realities of ministry today moving beyond "winning arguments" to genuine encounter, and recognizing that every person, regardless of their beliefs or lifestyle, reveals something about the mystery of God's love.

If you've ever felt that your strongest encounters with God happened outside traditional church settings, or if you're wrestling with how to authentically love people the church has marginalized, this conversation will resonate deeply.

Finding Faith Through Witness (0:00 - 7:00)

• Cindy's journey from occasional Mass attendance to active faith
• The transformative influence of her Catholic grandparents
• How her grandparents embodied Theology of the Body before it was taught
• The moment she encountered God's love while holding her newborn daughter

From Relational Ministry to Radical Love (7:00 - 14:00)

• The Christ Renew His Parish retreat that changed everything
• Moving beyond "relational ministry with an ulterior motive"
• Understanding that truth isn't moral ideals—it's a Person whose identity is love
• Encountering God through unexpected friendships at a bar

God in the Margins (14:00 - 22:00)

• Father John's reflection on the Eucharist as lens for seeing God everywhere
• Why the strongest encounters with God often happen outside church structures
• The sacredness of face-to-face conversation in a dehumanized world
• Suffering as the great unifier across political and religious divides

Accompaniment Over Conversion (22:00 - 31:00)

• Moving from "winning arguments" to walking alongside people
• The complex pastoral situation of accompanying a trans individual seeking baptism
• What baptism really means when we don't fully understand how grace works
• Simone Weil's paradox: refusing baptism to avoid separating herself from others

Formation as Transformation (31:00 - 40:00)

• What faith formation really means (hint: it's not just theology classes)
• Avoiding the "consumer Catholic" trap
• Why the disciples didn't need seminary degrees to transform the world
• Interior integration versus compartmentalization

The Art of Accompaniment (40:00 - 52:00)

• Pope Francis's call to "remove our sandals at the sacredness of the other"
• How a barber brought four people to faith this year
• Treating every interaction—even with store clerks—as eternal encounter
• The prophetic practice of listening without agenda

Cindy Black has served in Catholic ministry for 26 years across multiple roles including youth ministry director, diocesan director of youth and young adult ministry (9 years), Catholic radio station team member (8 years), and currently serves in the Office of Evangelization at her home parish in Indi...

• (00:00:00) - Finding Faith Through Witness
• (00:07:00) - From Relational Ministry to Radical Love
• (00:14:00) - God in the Margins
• (00:22:00) - Accompaniment Over Conversion
• (00:31:00) - Formation as Transformation
• (00:40:00) - The Art of Accompaniment

This is a simple trailer to let you know that next up for Religion to Reality is a series of bonus episodes. Every other week, we'll release the full conversation we had with one of our guests from Season One.

Have a listen to this teaser to hear a quick montage of our favorite topic revealed to us throughout the season.

See you for Season Two in 2026!

In this powerful season finale of Religion to Reality, hosts Dave Plisky and Fr. John Gribowich reflect on their journey through over two dozen interviews, distilling the most transformative lessons about living an integrated spiritual life. They explore why listening, not activism, may be the most prophetic witness the Church can offer today, challenge traditional clericalism from surprising angles, and discover that belonging must come before belief. Through conversations with Stephen White, Fr. Thomas Gaunt, and Paul Fahey, this episode reveals how authentic relationships, radical listening, and the sacramental worldview can transform both individual lives and Church communities.

The Art of Radical Listening (4:00)

• Why listening is the highest form of paying attention and waiting for God
• The difference between productive action and contemplative discernment
• How the spirit of Advent shapes authentic spiritual practice

Discipleship vs. Activism (6:30)

• The dangerous professionalization of Church work
• Why doing "Catholic things" doesn't automatically equal discipleship
• How the division between clergy and laity undermines the baptismal call

Clericalism from the Bottom Up (8:00)

• Steven White's provocative insight: laity share responsibility for clericalism
• The transactional spirituality that's persisted for 1,500+ years
• Why waiting for bishops to fix problems is itself a form of clericalism

The Fluidity of Roles (12:00)

• Moving beyond rigid categories while honoring the sacramental priesthood
• How effective preaching happens beyond ordination
• Creating healthy tension between structure and Spirit

Research as Sacred Listening (20:00)

• Fr. Thomas Gaunt on CARA's agenda-free approach to Church research
• Why Sunday Mass attendance isn't the only measure of active faith
• The surprising power of baptism to create lifelong belonging

The Indelible Mark of Baptism (25:00)

• Why does baptizing infants offer a "container" for spiritual growth
• How baptism creates belonging regardless of church participation
• The beauty of unconditional ecclesial presence

Belonging Before Belief (33:00)

• (00:05:40) - Interview with Steven White (Executive Director, Catholic Poject
• (00:19:40) - Interview with Fr. Thomas Gaunt (Executive Director, CARA)
• (00:32:40) - Interview with Paul Fahey (Limited License Professional Counselor, Retreat Leader, Catechist)

In this insightful episode of Religion to Reality, hosts Dave Plisky and Fr. John Gribowich step back from theory to examine the hard data behind Catholic discipleship and faith formation. They explore surprising findings from their comprehensive discipleship study and discuss what the numbers reveal about modern spiritual practices, evangelization comfort levels, and the changing landscape of faith in America.

Featuring interviews with three leading voices in faith research, Hans Plate (Vinea Research), Josh Packard (Future of Faith), and Fr. Joseph Gibino (Diocese of Brooklyn), this episode bridges the gap between data and pastoral practice. Discover what Gen Z really thinks about God, why 100% of people with spiritual directors found them through a spiritual community to which they already belong, and how the Synod on Synodality is reshaping the Church's approach to listening.

Key Takeaway: Data isn't just for businesses—it's essential for understanding how to meet people where they are in their faith journey and creating meaningful pathways to deeper discipleship.

[00:00:00] Opening Reflection

• "Listen and silent share the same letters" - the importance of silence in listening

[00:01:00] Why Data Matters for the Church

• How businesses use data to serve customers
• Applying data-driven insights to church ministry
• Understanding where people stand in their faith journey

[00:02:00] Surprising Study Findings

• Both physical and digital prayer aids are used across all generations (only 6% use exclusively one type)
• 100% of people with spiritual directors found them through their parish or faith community
• Prayer apps correlate with increased prayer frequency
• The challenge of measuring interior spiritual life

[00:04:00] The Omnichannel Approach to Faith

• Why multiple touchpoints matter in spiritual formation
• The integrated life as the ultimate goal
• Different seasons require different spiritual resources

[00:06:00] Interview with Hans Plate (Vinea Research)

• Majority of respondents pray over an hour daily
• 76% are comfortable evangelizing; 56% are proactive about it
• High interest in learning more about evangelization
• The need to understand what "evangelization" actually means to people

[00:09:00] Rethinking Evangelization

• (00:06:00) - Interview with Hans Plate (Vinea Research)
• (00:17:00) - Interview with Josh Packard (Future of Faith)
• (00:31:00) - Interview with Fr. Joseph Gibino (Diocese of Brooklyn)

How do you find authentic Catholic community in a world that's more connected yet more isolated than ever? In this episode of Religion to Reality, hosts Dave Plisky and Fr. John Gribowich explore why community keeps emerging as a central theme in faith formation, and why finding the right fit can be so challenging.

From whiskey tastings to Catholic Worker houses to digital book clubs, discover how different forms of community serve different spiritual needs. You'll hear honest conversations about parish shopping, the struggle to commit, and why sometimes the best community isn't the one with perfect liturgy or programs, it's the one where you show up consistently. Whether you're searching for your spiritual home or wondering if online connections can ever replace in-person fellowship, this episode offers practical wisdom for the journey.

Community Happens When People Need It (2:00-3:30)

• Why genuine encounters with God spark the desire for community
• How passion and shared interests naturally create fellowship

Whiskey and the Word: An Unconventional Small Group (4:00-14:00) Guest: Dr. Mark Heyman, Licensed Psychologist & Small Group Leader

• Creating low-barrier entry points for men's fellowship
• Why forced sharing turns people off from faith groups
• The importance of consistency: same time, same place, every week
• Understanding that not every group can (or should) be for everyone
• How whiskey breaks down barriers without being about getting drunk

Living in Community: Lessons from Catholic Worker Movement (20:00-32:00) Guest: Renée Roden, Journalist & Catholic Worker Member

• The reality check: community life is hard, even with a 1,300-year-old rule
• Why intimacy and friendship are foundational to sustainable community
• The temptation to become dictators of our own countercultural communes
• How families are successfully living the Catholic Worker vision
• Why conversion of heart requires healthy community support

Digital vs. In-Person Community (37:00-52:00) Guest: Luisamaria Hernandez, DeSales Media Success Consultant

• Using digital spaces as entry points to in-person connection
• Why commitment leads to consistency (and vice versa)
• The power of showing up: how to actually find communities in your area

• (00:04:00) - Interview with Dr. Mark Heyman (Whiskey and the Word Small Group)
• (00:20:00) - Interview with Renée Roden (Catholic Worker Movement & Community Life)
• (00:37:00) - Interview with Luisamaria Hernandez (Digital vs. In-Person Community)

Are podcasts reshaping how Catholics engage with their faith? In this episode of Religion to Reality, we explore the explosive growth of Catholic podcasting and what it means for modern faith formation. From survivors finding their voice to Latino communities building networks, discover why this medium is uniquely positioned to meet people where they are—both spiritually and literally.

• "Anyone who's baptized is the church" - Paul Fahey challenges traditional boundaries of who creates "official" Catholic content
• Why the institutional church struggles with oversight in the podcast space
• The tension between empowering lay voices and preventing spiritual harm through misinformation

• "If one person's heart has been touched, you've done your task and mission" - Christina Semmens on redefining podcast success
• How the head-heart-hands-feet framework applies to both creating and consuming content
• Why discernment, not downloads, should drive your content decisions

• Jose Manuel de Urquidi's wake-up call: "We're all fishing in the same small pond while the ocean is right there"
• How John Paul II prophetically identified the internet as the "new Roman Forum" back in 2002
• Why podcasts can create deep encounters with God despite being one-way communication

Paul Fahey - Host of Third Space podcast, limited licensed professional counselor, retreat leader, and catechist who focuses on survivors of church-related abuse. Paul stumbled into podcasting a decade ago and found it uniquely suited to catechesis through dialogue rather than static writing.

Christina Semmens - Host of Say Yes to Holiness With 230+ episodes under her belt, Christina brings a framework of head-heart-hands-feet to integrated Catholic living. Her podcast emerged from her book work and has become a continuous discernment journey.

Jose Manuel de Urquidi - Founder of the Juan Diego Network Leading a podcast network dedicated to Latino Catholics with shows covering everything from church history to children's stories. His mission: evangelize, form, and entertain—preferably all three at once.

01:00 - "I can listen to a podcast while driving, running, doing dishes, mowing the lawn" - Why convenience matters for busy Catholics

05:00

• (00:03:00) - Interview with Paul Fahey (Third Space Podcast)
• (00:12:00) - Interview with Christina Semmens (Say Yes to Holiness)
• (00:21:00) - Interview with Jose Manuel De Urquidi (Juan Diego Network)

Are you attending Mass regularly but struggling to live out your faith in everyday life? You're not alone. In this episode of Religion to Reality, Dave Plisky and Fr. John Gribowich explore why so many Catholics feel confident in their sacramental life but struggle with the expressive fruits of discipleship, particularly the corporal and spiritual works of mercy.

Drawing from their groundbreaking discipleship study, they sit down with three inspiring guests who are living these works of mercy in radically different ways: Renee Roden from the Catholic Worker Movement, Fr. Jim O'Shea of Reconnect Brooklyn, and Christina Semmens of Say Yes to Holiness. Together, they unpack what it truly means to become Eucharist in the world and how small acts of mercy in our daily lives can transform both ourselves and our communities.

• Overview of expressive fruits from the discipleship study
• Why Catholics rate themselves low on works of mercy despite strong sacramental participation

• The relationship between the Eucharist and works of mercy
• How the liturgical movement influenced Dorothy Day and Peter Maurin
• Why there should be no division between "helpers" and "the helped"

• Understanding "Go forth, the Mass is ended" as a call to action
• Integrating material and spiritual needs in service
• The danger of separating soup kitchens from spiritual community

• Why accompanying someone already doing this work matters
• Overcoming the awkwardness of personal encounter
• Building spiritual muscles through community

• Working with at-risk youth in Bedford-Stuyvesant
• How radical solidarity costs us our comfortable narratives
• The fear that keeps us from authentic engagement

• Why Fr. Jim says we've "written off" certain groups of people
• Starting with those in proximity before reaching the margins
• Working the muscle of deep listening in your own family

• (00:03:00) - Interview with Renee Roden - Catholic Worker Movement
• (00:15:00) - Interview with Father Jim O'Shea - Reconnect Brooklyn
• (00:25:00) - Interview with Christina Simmons - Say Yes to Holiness

Why do so many Catholics struggle to share their faith, even when they want to? In this episode, Dave Plisky and Fr. John Gribowich explore the personal and professional barriers that prevent Catholics from evangelizing effectively. Through conversations with Monica Martinez, parish lead at Hallow, Emily Ricci, founder and CEO of Gloriam Marketing, and Peter Andrastek, a senior consultant at the Evangelical Catholic, they discover that the solution isn't more training or techniques, but something far more fundamental: authentic relationship, genuine encounter, and what you might call "pre-evangelization." If you've ever felt uncomfortable with the word "evangelization" or wondered why your parish's outreach efforts fall flat, this episode offers a refreshing perspective that puts listening, presence, and personal holiness before programs and strategies.

• Why the word "evangelization" makes many Catholics uncomfortable (1:00)
  • "There needs to be almost what I would think call a pre-evangelization that takes priority over evangelization... It's so much caught up in the whole realm of listening, proactively hearing what people are saying and hearing it well." - Fr. John Gribowich
• The medium is the message: How Jesus embodies this truth (3:00)
  • Understanding the incarnation as the ultimate example of medium as message
  • Why focusing on doctrine first can muddy the real goal of evangelization
• Post-COVID parish evangelization efforts (7:00)
  • Monica Martinez shares what's working: welcoming gestures, hospitality, and simple recognition of new visitors
  • How one parish's director of evangelization makes newcomers feel valued
• Why Mass is often the wrong entry point for evangelization (9:00)
  • The complexity barrier for outsiders: "This is boring. Why am I here?"
  • The importance of encounter over information: "It's not so much about saying 'tell me that God loves me.' It's experiencing the love of God."
• Teaching Masses as a tool for formation (13:00)
  • Father John's experiences with Pre-Cana couples, RCIA candidates, and high school students
  • When and how teaching Masses work effectively
• The mutual evangelization principle (16:00)
  • "The person who feels called to evangelize needs to also equally feel called to be evangelized by the person they are trying to evangelize." - Fr. John Gribowich
  • Recognizing that Christ is already at work in every person's life
• Parish marketing challenges and solutions (19:00)
  • Emily Ricci on the top three obstacles: lack of time, lack of skills, lack of finances
  • Why "product before promotion" matters: You need something worth inviting people to
• The language problem in evangelization (22:00)
  • Moving from "what and where" to "why and how"
  • Using testimonial language from actual participants to communicate value
• What parishes get wrong about evangelization (22:00)
  • "They're typically very different... the parish that's going to be in the best spot to evangelize is the parish that's already active and vibrant."
  • Why you need to engage people in the pews before reaching new people
• The 12-step program model for Church community (33:00)
  • What the Church can learn: ritual, vulnerability, accessibility, and companionship
  • Shoutout to Catholic in Recovery (catholicinrecovery.org)
  ...

• (00:06:00) - Interview with Monica Martinez (Parish Lead at Hallow)
• (00:19:00) - Interview with Emily Ricci (Founder and CEO of Gloriam Marketing)
• (00:35:00) - Interview with Peter Andrastek (Senior Consultant at the Evangelical Catholic)