What does it really mean to live an integrated faith life? In this powerful bonus episode, Father John Gribowich sits down with Cindy Black, a 26-year veteran of Catholic ministry, for an intimate conversation about discovering God in unexpected places and people.

Cindy shares her compelling journey from a "porta crib Catholic" who rarely attended Mass to becoming a passionate minister serving in youth ministry, diocesan leadership, Catholic radio, and parish evangelization. But this isn't just another conversion story, it's a profound exploration of how God shows up in bar conversations with atheists, friendships with those the church has wounded, and the sacred space of simply listening without agenda.

Through raw honesty and vulnerability, Cindy and Father John tackle the messy realities of ministry today moving beyond "winning arguments" to genuine encounter, and recognizing that every person, regardless of their beliefs or lifestyle, reveals something about the mystery of God's love.

If you've ever felt that your strongest encounters with God happened outside traditional church settings, or if you're wrestling with how to authentically love people the church has marginalized, this conversation will resonate deeply.

Finding Faith Through Witness (0:00 - 7:00)

• Cindy's journey from occasional Mass attendance to active faith
• The transformative influence of her Catholic grandparents
• How her grandparents embodied Theology of the Body before it was taught
• The moment she encountered God's love while holding her newborn daughter

From Relational Ministry to Radical Love (7:00 - 14:00)

• The Christ Renew His Parish retreat that changed everything
• Moving beyond "relational ministry with an ulterior motive"
• Understanding that truth isn't moral ideals—it's a Person whose identity is love
• Encountering God through unexpected friendships at a bar

God in the Margins (14:00 - 22:00)

• Father John's reflection on the Eucharist as lens for seeing God everywhere
• Why the strongest encounters with God often happen outside church structures
• The sacredness of face-to-face conversation in a dehumanized world
• Suffering as the great unifier across political and religious divides

Accompaniment Over Conversion (22:00 - 31:00)

• Moving from "winning arguments" to walking alongside people
• The complex pastoral situation of accompanying a trans individual seeking baptism
• What baptism really means when we don't fully understand how grace works
• Simone Weil's paradox: refusing baptism to avoid separating herself from others

Formation as Transformation (31:00 - 40:00)

• What faith formation really means (hint: it's not just theology classes)
• Avoiding the "consumer Catholic" trap
• Why the disciples didn't need seminary degrees to transform the world
• Interior integration versus compartmentalization

The Art of Accompaniment (40:00 - 52:00)

• Pope Francis's call to "remove our sandals at the sacredness of the other"
• How a barber brought four people to faith this year
• Treating every interaction—even with store clerks—as eternal encounter
• The prophetic practice of listening without agenda

Cindy Black has served in Catholic ministry for 26 years across multiple roles including youth ministry director, diocesan director of youth and young adult ministry (9 years), Catholic radio station team member (8 years), and currently serves in the Office of Evangelization at her home parish in Indi...

• (00:00:00) - Finding Faith Through Witness
• (00:07:00) - From Relational Ministry to Radical Love
• (00:14:00) - God in the Margins
• (00:22:00) - Accompaniment Over Conversion
• (00:31:00) - Formation as Transformation
• (00:40:00) - The Art of Accompaniment

This is a simple trailer to let you know that next up for Religion to Reality is a series of bonus episodes. Every other week, we'll release the full conversation we had with one of our guests from Season One.

Have a listen to this teaser to hear a quick montage of our favorite topic revealed to us throughout the season.

See you for Season Two in 2026!

In this powerful season finale of Religion to Reality, hosts Dave Plisky and Fr. John Gribowich reflect on their journey through over two dozen interviews, distilling the most transformative lessons about living an integrated spiritual life. They explore why listening, not activism, may be the most prophetic witness the Church can offer today, challenge traditional clericalism from surprising angles, and discover that belonging must come before belief. Through conversations with Stephen White, Fr. Thomas Gaunt, and Paul Fahey, this episode reveals how authentic relationships, radical listening, and the sacramental worldview can transform both individual lives and Church communities.

The Art of Radical Listening (4:00)

• Why listening is the highest form of paying attention and waiting for God
• The difference between productive action and contemplative discernment
• How the spirit of Advent shapes authentic spiritual practice

Discipleship vs. Activism (6:30)

• The dangerous professionalization of Church work
• Why doing "Catholic things" doesn't automatically equal discipleship
• How the division between clergy and laity undermines the baptismal call

Clericalism from the Bottom Up (8:00)

• Steven White's provocative insight: laity share responsibility for clericalism
• The transactional spirituality that's persisted for 1,500+ years
• Why waiting for bishops to fix problems is itself a form of clericalism

The Fluidity of Roles (12:00)

• Moving beyond rigid categories while honoring the sacramental priesthood
• How effective preaching happens beyond ordination
• Creating healthy tension between structure and Spirit

Research as Sacred Listening (20:00)

• Fr. Thomas Gaunt on CARA's agenda-free approach to Church research
• Why Sunday Mass attendance isn't the only measure of active faith
• The surprising power of baptism to create lifelong belonging

The Indelible Mark of Baptism (25:00)

• Why does baptizing infants offer a "container" for spiritual growth
• How baptism creates belonging regardless of church participation
• The beauty of unconditional ecclesial presence

Belonging Before Belief (33:00)

• (00:05:40) - Interview with Steven White (Executive Director, Catholic Poject
• (00:19:40) - Interview with Fr. Thomas Gaunt (Executive Director, CARA)
• (00:32:40) - Interview with Paul Fahey (Limited License Professional Counselor, Retreat Leader, Catechist)