You can leave church and still lose the community that came with it. This episode is about what comes after.

In the final part of the ReMade series, Aaron and Ben talk about the very real grief of losing church community, and the equally real work of building something better in its place. They get into the difference between community and control, why you only really need about five good friends, and the four words (borrowed from Simon Sinek) that might change one of your friendships: do you have eight minutes?

This is a hosts-only episode, no guest, just Aaron and Ben closing out the ReMade series (Rediscover, ReWilded, RePlanted).

“it was never community we were scared of. it was control.”

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He trained for ten years to be a minister and thought he'd do it for life. Then Matt Glover backed marriage equality, and it cost him his church.

Aaron and Ben sit down with Matt, a former Baptist minister who supported same-sex marriage years before the plebiscite and lost his role, his career, and a community for it. He'll correct you on one thing though: he wasn't fired, he resigned and walked away. And he says he'd go back to that room today and say thank you.

It's a conversation about allyship that never felt like a stand, the difference between a job and a calling, and the friend named Finn who gently detonated everything Matt thought he knew. Matt is now a counsellor, and he shares what he sees most in his room today: spiritual abuse and deconstruction.

As Matt puts it: "It's okay to not know things and just be kind."

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what happens to your faith when you stop believing in a god of fear?

reverend brandan robertson, the tiktok pastor and author of queer and christian, joins aaron and ben for one of the most hopeful conversations we've had. brandan grew up in maryland fundamentalism, got saved at 12, went through conversion therapy at moody bible institute, and was named in time magazine in 2015 before the evangelical world turned on him. he came out of it not bitter but freer.

we talk about queering christianity, the stories nobody preached us growing up, and why the queer community is far more spiritual than the world assumes. as brandan puts it: "you walk into a queer club, reach your arm out, and you'll touch somebody with religious trauma."

brandan is a pastor, author and phd candidate in new testament who now leads a small church in queens and helps thousands reclaim a faith built on love instead of punishment.

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