In this episode of Practical Product Management, hosts Leah Farmer and Marilyn McDonald welcome back returning guests Alesha Cronie and Geno White for a candid conversation about iteration. Together, they unpack why iteration is more than a process—it’s a mindset centered on learning, courage, and embracing discomfort.

The discussion explores the “courage gap” that often holds organizations back, the tension between incentives and innovation, and why MVPs so often miss the mark. The group also debates the evolving balance of product and engineering roles in the age of AI, and the importance of curiosity in solving real customer problems. It’s a lively and unfiltered look at what it truly means to “fuck around and find out” in product development.

Key Takeaways

1. Iteration is about learning, not perfection – moving fast matters less than learning fast, and that requires comfort with uncertainty.
2. Courage and trust are critical – organizations often get stuck not because the data isn’t there, but because leaders lack the courage to pivot or empower teams.
3. MVPs are often meaningless – reframing them as learning vehicles (or prototypes) keeps teams focused on outcomes instead of excuses.

In this episode, Leah and Marilyn sit down with Mike Maynard, Chairman at Napier B2B PR & Marketing, to unpack why B2B is far from boring. Mike shares why complex buying committees make B2B uniquely challenging, how synthetic personas can help but never replace real conversations, and why respect for the problem (not just the proposed solution) is essential. Along the way, they dig into the pitfalls of surveys, the role of product-led growth in long development cycles, and what it takes to move products from “nerds” to “norms.”

Key Takeaways

1. B2B decisions are complex and committee-driven — success means understanding multiple perspectives (engineers, CEOs, finance, InfoSec) and tailoring your approach accordingly.
2. Surveys often mislead — synthetic personas and data can support you, but nothing replaces real conversations with customers in context.
3. Respect the problem, not just the solution — product managers must look beyond what customers ask for, uncover the root issue, and bring all stakeholders’ voices into the room.

In this candid conversation, hosts Leah and Marilyn talk with product leader Charity about ambition, burnout, and the elusive art of slowing down. From unexpected career starts to the relentless pursuit of the next goal, they explore how high-achievers push themselves (sometimes too far) and what it takes to recognize when it’s time to rest. The episode offers a mix of personal stories, leadership insights, and practical reflections on sustaining both success and well-being.

3 Key Takeaways

• Ambition can be double-edged. The same drive that fuels achievement can also lead to exhaustion if left unchecked.
• Rest rarely happens by accident. True downtime often requires intentional boundaries and self-awareness — and sometimes the courage to walk away.
• Leaders set the tone. Your energy impacts your team; burnout in leadership can ripple outward in ways you might not realize until later.