That’s Hugh White, and I’m Nathan Robertson-Ball, and welcome to or welcome back to the Finding Nature podcast. Each week I sit down with the leading thinkers and doers across policy, business, academia, civil society and the creative arts to explore their perspectives on and experiences in contributing to a world that is healthier, safer and more just. Lost in my career and having suffered a dramatic life oblivion I was sick and tired of the constantness of feeling disappointment and despair in my daily life. I wanted to better understand how change worked, how it happened, how others understood it and what the best across multiple fields did to pursue and activate it themselves. That simple question was the beginning of what Finding Nature is, and it’s a privilege to spend time with remarkable people every week and be curious about their insights and wisdom. I’m glad you’re here to experience it too.

This is Hugh White’s second appearance on the show, and he is on the show as his latest book, Hard New World; Australia’s Post-American Future has just hit the shelves. This is a follow up to his extremely popular Quarterly Essay from the middle of 2025, as well as an extension on many of the ideas and commentaries there. I’m lucky doing this that I now get to read a lot of excellent writing that help me better understand this moment, how we got here and where we might be headed, and Hugh’s work has been central in helping me re-frame my own perspective. Hard New World is compelling reading that explores Australia’s position and identity in an era of significant geopolitical re-ordering, as well as what’s driving that re-ordering.

Hugh’s expertise lies in Australian strategic and defence policy, Asia Pacific and world security, as well as global strategic affairs. Starting his career as an intelligence analyst, was a journalist at the Sydney Morning Herald, was International Relations Advisor to Bob Hawke during his Prime Ministership and served as a senior official in the Department of Defence. He was the founding Director of the Australian Strategic Policy Institute, served as the head of the Australian National University’s Strategic and Defence Studies Centre, has authored nine major publications as an author, co-hosts The Foreign Exchange podcast and his writing features regularly in publications like The Saturday Paper, Australian Financial Review and The Lowy Institute. That’s an abridged bio, but what it points to is if there is anyone in this country more credentialed and capable of eloquently and comprehensively sharing about the state of global affairs and Australia’s place in the world, Hugh is it.

We cover so much ground in this chat. From Australia’s required identity shift to move with a changing world, the narrative required to do that and the political consequences of dealing with the geographical realities of Australia’s place in the world, the dynamics of the transition underway to a unipolar world, Trumpism and US isolationism, nuclear weapons, climate change as a threat multiplier but maybe as a challenge of such significance humanity can’t ignore reprising its cooperative spirit to address, the role of imagination in all of this and historical precedents how for post colonial Australia has shifted with the times - from Federation to the abolishment of the White Australia Policy. If you care about or are curious about the shifts underway in our world, this one is for you.

Some extra reading relevant to this episode from our friends at Altiorem.

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