In episode 113, Theresa and Kathryn sit down with Eric Songer, a veteran middle school music educator, to explore what it really means to move from “music for all” to “all music.” Drawing from his own unconventional path into music—sparked by pop radio and a love for popular culture—Eric shares how his teaching philosophy centers on expanding access to music-making beyond traditional ensembles. He describes how incorporating genres like rock, hip hop, bluegrass, and mariachi, along with opportunities in songwriting, production, and student-led ensembles, creates more entry points for students to engage meaningfully with music.

Eric offers a wide range of practical strategies for bringing this vision to life, from launching after-school “School of Rock” programs to embedding composition, improvisation, and music technology into the regular band curriculum. He also highlights the importance of student agency—encouraging teachers to say “yes” to student ideas, even when it means learning alongside them. Throughout the conversation, Eric emphasizes that these approaches don’t detract from traditional programs but instead deepen student engagement, broaden participation, and help more students see themselves as musicians.

Connect with Eric and Learn More:

• Website
• YouTube Channel
• Facebook
• Instagram

Resources from this Episode:

• Association for Popular Music Education
• Shed the Music
• Music Will
• 3 Strings
• Episode 53 - The Most Important Question You can Ask in Music Education
• Episode 112 - We Know We Can: Building Community Through Hip-Hop

Learn more about Pass the Baton:

• Pass the Baton website
• Join the Coffee Club
• Support Pass the Baton
• Amplify student voice with Exit Tickets for Self Reflection

In this episode, Theresa and Kathryn are joined by Andrew Wang, a K–12 music teacher who brings hip-hop culture to life in a neurodivergent-centered classroom. Drawing from his own experiences as a neurodivergent learner, Andrew shares how hip-hop became both a personal outlet and a powerful teaching tool. He describes his work in an inclusive school setting, where music supports not only musical growth but also communication, confidence, and social-emotional development. By incorporating elements like beatboxing, call-and-response, and student-selected music, Andrew creates an engaging environment where all students can participate and feel a sense of belonging.

Throughout the conversation, Andrew emphasizes that hip-hop is more than just music, it’s a culture rooted in community, identity, and expression. He highlights practical ways teachers can bring hip-hop into any classroom, from general music to traditional ensembles, while still meeting standards and maintaining intentionality. The discussion also explores how hip-hop can foster deeper student connections, encourage critical thinking, and support lifelong musical engagement. Ultimately, Andrew makes a compelling case for expanding what counts as “valuable” in music education, showing how culturally relevant, student-centered approaches can empower learners of all backgrounds.

Connect with Andrew and Learn More:

• Email: hiphopneuroed@gmail.com
• Website: Neuro Hip Hop
• Links: https://popl.co/card/LtviKNP9/1/dash

Additional Resources from this Episode

• Book - Hip Hop Can Save America, by Manny Faces
• Book - Yonkers the Lost City of Hip Hop, by Jerome Enders
• Book - For White Folks Who Teach in the Hood, by Chris Emdin
• Book - From White Folks Who Teach in the Hood, by Chris Emdin and Sam Seidel
• Website: We Got Our Own Thang - Real Talk from AJ Woodson
• Neurodivergent Music Network

Learn more about Pass the Baton

• Pass the Baton Book Study through VanderCook College of Music
• Pass the Baton website
• Join the Coffee Club
• Support Pass the Baton
• Amplify student voice with Exit Tickets for Self Reflection

In Episode 111, Meagan Thorup shares her journey toward building a music classroom centered on creativity, reflection, and lifelong musicianship. Grounded in the belief that she is not training professional musicians but equipping students with skills they can carry beyond school, Meagan describes how her teaching has evolved through continuous experimentation and student feedback. She highlights the power of incorporating composition into ensemble settings, walking through her process of scaffolded, collaborative class compositions that move from simple melodies to student-led arrangements. Through trial and error - and a willingness to listen when things don’t work - Meagan has created experiences where students take ownership, discover their creative voice, and feel a genuine sense of pride in what they create.

The conversation also explores how to cultivate independence through intentional practice and accountability. Meagan explains her shift away from traditional practice logs toward a more reflective, skill-based approach that helps students learn how to practice effectively. By integrating accountability partners, peer collaboration, and ongoing reflection, students not only improve musically but also develop habits they can apply beyond the classroom. Throughout the episode, Meagan emphasizes the importance of viewing teaching as a partnership with students - one where their voices, ideas, and experiences shape the learning process. Listeners will walk away with practical strategies and a powerful reminder: when students are given ownership and the space to create, they can exceed our expectations in meaningful and surprising ways.

Connect with Meagan and Learn More:

• Website: My Happy Teaching Life
• Orchestra Music: Starlight Tango
• Orchestra Music - Through the Fog
• YouTube Channel - Music Theory Pro Tips

Other Resources to Check Out:

• Book: Atomic Habits, by James Clear
• Book: The Talent Code, by Daniel Coyle
• Pass the Baton Book Study, VanderCook College of Music
• Episode 109: Programming for Agency: Choosing Repertoire That Empowers Students

Connect with Pass the Baton:

• Pass the Baton website
• Join the Coffee Club
• Support Pass the Baton
• Amplify student voice with Exit Tickets for Self Reflection