In 2008, Katy Talento walked away from Capitol Hill and into a Catholic convent. Within a year, she walked out. Within another decade, she sat inside the White House shaping health policy. Somewhere in between, she got labeled “infertile” after a single cycle of testing and spent years believing it. That label stuck. The pain that came before it never got investigated. Doctors offered birth control and moved on. No one asked why her body was struggling. No one followed the thread.

Talento built her career inside the very systems she now critiques. She worked on federal health policy, global disease programs, and later advised the Trump administration on healthcare reform. She helped advance price transparency rules in a system where hospitals can still list 457 different prices for the same service. Then she left.

Now she builds employer health plans that bypass insurers, PBMs, and traditional networks. Her approach replaces insurance contracts with direct payment, nurse navigators, and cost sharing models that promise simplicity but raise hard questions about risk and protection. This conversation sits in that tension.

Talento describes a healthcare system shaped by layered incentives, where insurers, hospitals, and intermediaries profit from complexity. She argues that employers hold the leverage to disrupt it. The host pushes on what happens when patients fall outside those structures, when contracts disappear, and when community based models fail.

The episode moves through infertility, misdiagnosis, insurance design, and the mechanics of employer sponsored care. It tracks how policy decisions made in Washington ripple into exam rooms, billing departments, and family lives. It also confronts a harder truth. Even insiders who understand the system can still get caught in it.

RELATED LINKS

AllBetter Health

Katy Talento

Them Before Us

An Arm and a Leg

Relentless Health Value

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In a wooded campground cabin in the early 2000s, 19 year old Ben Unger stood in the doorway and watched 20 naked men form a circle around a crying teenager. A counselor held up two tangerines and shouted, “These are your balls.” The exercise claimed to cure same sex attraction by forcing young men to “reclaim” their masculinity from overbearing mothers. Phones had been confiscated. Parents had paid thousands of dollars. Religion supplied the script. Pseudoscience supplied the props.

Ben had grown up in an Orthodox Jewish community in Brooklyn and later studied in Israel to become a rabbi. When he admitted he felt attracted to men, rabbis told him to eat 7 figs a day, immerse in a ritual bath 5 times daily, or marry a woman and trust that “if there’s friction, it works.” At 19, he entered conversion therapy through an organization called Jews Offering New Alternatives to Homosexuality, known as JONAH. He left with depression, religious trauma, and 6 months of silence toward the mother he had been taught to blame.

Years later, represented by the Southern Poverty Law Center, Ben helped sue JONAH for consumer fraud in a landmark New Jersey case. The argument centered on evidence, not theology. Sexual orientation cannot be changed. The jury deliberated for 3 hours and ruled against the organization. The verdict helped reshape how states regulate conversion therapy and protect minors from psychological harm disguised as treatment.

Today, Ben runs Buff Personal Training in New York City, a gym built on autonomy, mental health, and self respect. His story traces the arc from institutional control to self authorship. The conversation examines religion, LGBTQ rights, conversion therapy, consumer protection law, and the lasting cost of being told your identity is a disorder.

RELATED LINKS

Ben Unger on LinkedIn

Ben Unger on Instagram

BUF Personal Training

Southern Poverty Law Center

JONAH

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Jessica Federer built her career inside the rooms where science, money, and power collide. As the first female Chief Digital Officer at Bayer, she helped steer a 120,000 person global company through the rise of digital medicine while confronting a harder truth: women were excluded from U.S. clinical trials until 1993.

In this conversation, she explains how decades of “first in man” research shaped drug development, why women experience side effects at nearly 2x the rate of men, and how guidance on sex based differences did not arrive from the FDA until December 2025. She shares what it means to sit on a Yale Institutional Review Board, why clinical trial stipends over $3,000 get taxed, and why she believes participants deserve tax credits instead.

From GLP 1 profits to $40,000,000 women’s health funds that barely move the needle, this episode names the gaps and the opportunity hiding inside them.

RELATED LINKS

Jessica Federer on LinkedIn

Jessica Federer on Instagram

Yale School of Public Health

Health of Women Investor Summit

FEEDBACK

Like this episode? Rate and review Out of Patients on your favorite podcast platform. For guest suggestions or sponsorship email podcasts@matthewzachary.com

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.