keywords gratitude, connection, Thanksgiving, family, change, art, personal growth, loss, traditions, reflection

In this episode, Denise & Tim explore themes of gratitude, connection, and the complexities of navigating change in life. They discuss personal experiences related to new job opportunities, the importance of small moments of joy, and the challenges of maintaining gratitude amidst loss. The conversation also delves into Thanksgiving traditions and the significance of family connections, culminating in a challenge for listeners to reflect on their own gratitude practices.

takeaways

• Tim is excited for her new job opportunity.
• Gratitude is about noticing and appreciating small moments.
• Navigating change can be both exciting and challenging.
• Thanksgiving can evoke complex feelings and memories.
• Finding joy in everyday moments is essential for well-being.
• Loss can lead to a deeper appreciation for what we have.
• Family traditions shape our experiences and memories.
• Gratitude practices can help shift our mindset.
• It's important to reflect on why we are grateful.
• Connection and conversation are vital for personal growth.

Sound Bites

• "I'm excited for what's to come."
• "I want to know they're okay."
• "Loss always means people to me."

Chapters

00:00Introduction to the Pajama and Wine Sessions

02:24Transitioning to New Beginnings

04:26Exploring Connection Through Conversation

07:48The Practice of Gratitude

11:28Finding Joy in Small Moments

19:05Traditions and Reflections on Thanksgiving

25:24Navigating Family Dynamics During Holidays

27:48Creating New Thanksgiving Traditions

29:34Reflections on Gratitude and Personal Growth

34:29The Complexity of Parenting and Growing Up

36:25Lessons from Loss and the Power of Gratitude

45:53Embracing Gratitude Year-Round

In this deeply personal episode, Denise and Tim share the origin story of their family — three boys, five tattoos, and a bond forged through deployment, surprise pregnancies, and the kind of vulnerability that makes a family stronger. From a secret pregnancy revealed on a honeymoon to a diagnosis that tested their resolve, this is the story of how they became the five.

• The Monday before the wedding surprise — and why Denise kept it secret
• Thatcher's arrival: 24+ hours of labor, emergency C-section, and a slow, beautiful adjustment to parenthood
• Deploying to Iraq while expecting Cooper — and how a two-year-old became the "man of the house"
• Five years between Cooper and Mason, and the fear that came with a Down syndrome diagnosis
• The concept of "the five" — not just a number, but a family foundation built on adversity and trust
• How their tight-knit family expands to welcome girlfriends, friends, and chosen family

"The five is more of a concept than it is a number... It's this family coming together, this family being its own support, its own strength, its own rock to stand on." — Tim Waters

• What would you do if you found out you were pregnant the week of your wedding? Would you tell your partner right away?
• How do deployments and long separations shape a family's identity and resilience?
• What does it mean to be "emotionally literate" as a parent — and how do you raise kids who are in touch with their feelings?
• When does a family number become a concept? Who gets to be part of your core group?

We'd love to hear your family origin story. Tag @theroughdraft and share how your family became who you are today — whether by choice, surprise, or something in between.

Denise sits across from Tim in their home studio and says, "I have no idea why I didn't tell you I was pregnant before the wedding." Tim laughs — after 25 years, it's finally safe to ask. They realize some of their biggest moments happened without a script: a secret kept, a deployment survived, a diagnosis faced together. The five didn't just happen. It was built, one vulnerable conversation at a time.

• Ask someone in your family to tell you their version of your birth story or how you joined the family
• If you have kids, share with them the story of how they came into your life — the good, the hard, and the real
• Think about your own "core group" — who are the people that make you feel known and safe? Tell them
• If you're interested in beta testing the Connection Cards launching in 2025, sign up at [website form link]

Episode Summary

In their new home podcast studio, Denise and Tim open up about what Veterans Day truly means — beyond the bumper stickers and well-intentioned “thank you for your service.” They explore the difference between Veterans Day and Memorial Day, the nuance of recognition versus understanding, and how storytelling keeps service experiences alive. Along the way, they reflect on Pat Tillman’s legacy at ASU, veteran benefits that miss the mark, and a powerful new film that gets it right.

What We Talk About

• What Veterans Day honors — and what it doesn’t
• The awkwardness and intent behind “thank you for your service”
• Pat Tillman’s story, ASU’s Salute to Service, and honoring every veteran
• The importance of listening to and preserving veterans’ stories
• Sheepdog — a film that portrays post-service life with truth and hope
• Why understanding matters more than a single day of recognition

Quote of the Episode

“I don’t want your support as much as I want your understanding.” — Tim Waters

Conversation Starters

• When someone thanks a veteran, what do they actually mean — and what could they ask instead?
• How can we preserve and share the stories of veterans in our own families or communities?
• What would it look like to honor service year-round, not just on Veterans Day?
• For educators and leaders: How might your institution balance visibility for one hero’s story with space for many others?

Resources & Mentions

Films & Viewing

• Sheepdog — A powerful drama about veterans returning home, capturing both struggle and redemption through community and therapy.

Books & Reading

• Tribe by Sebastian Junger — Why belonging and shared purpose are critical to veterans’ reintegration.
• Thank You for Your Service by David Finkel — A raw, compassionate portrait of soldiers after war.

Articles & Research

• “Pat Tillman’s Enduring Legacy and the ASU Veterans Center” — ASU News
• “The Science of Post-Traumatic Growth” — American Psychological Association

Tools & Practices

• Story Listening — Ask open-ended questions like, “What’s one story from your service you’d be willing to share today?” It builds trust and understanding.
• Reflection Prompt: What’s one story from your own life of service — military or otherwise — that shaped who you are today?

Connect & Reflect

We’d love to hear your story. Tag @theroughdraft and share what resonated, what helped, or who showed up for you.

Mini Moment

In the glow of their new studio lights, Denise and Tim talk about how a simple phrase — “thank you for your service” — can both connect and distance people. Tim pauses, remembering the 545 days he spent away from home, and Denise leans in. They both realize that what people crave most isn’t recognition — it’s to be known.

Try This

• Ask a veteran in your life one meaningful question and listen — really listen — to the answer.
• Support a veteran-owned business or organization this week.
• Write down one small act of service you can offer in your own community — then do it.

⚠️ Trigger Warning
This episode discusses suicidal thoughts and experiences. If you or someone you know is struggling, you are not alone. Help is available—call or text 988 to reach the Suicide and Crisis Lifeline (available 24/7 in the U.S.). You can also visit 988lifeline.org for chat and resources.

With Veterans Day on the horizon, they dive into Tim’s 21 years in the U.S. Army and National Guard, exploring the reasons he joined at 26, the realities of deployment, and the invisible work of coming home changed.

From chaotic nights in Iraq to quiet commutes haunted by old instincts, this episode reveals the courage, complexity, and cost of serving something greater than yourself—and how identity, family, and purpose evolve when the mission ends.

• The meaning of service—and why it’s about more than uniforms or wars
• Joining the military later in life and finding purpose through the National Guard
• Deploying after 9/11: from training to real-world combat
• The moral weight of decisions made in chaos
• Life after service: rebuilding empathy, trust, and perspective
• How family, love, and community sustain you through the hard parts
• What it means to pass on a legacy of service to the next generation

“Being of use to something greater than yourself—that’s what service means to me.” — Tim Waters

• What does service mean to you? How do you show up for something bigger than yourself?
• Have you ever faced a moment that changed how you saw your purpose or identity?
• How can we better support veterans—and anyone—navigating big life transitions?

• 🎥 Sheepdog (2025), directed by Steven Grayhm — a gripping new drama following a decorated veteran court-ordered into treatment as he confronts trauma, forgiveness, and healing. Premiered at the 40th Annual Boston Film Festival and inspired by real stories of post-traumatic growth in veteran communities.
• Restoring the Soul of America — stories of veterans finding meaning beyond deployment.

Tools & Practices

• Practice gratitude for those who serve—write a thank-you letter, donate to veteran-support orgs, or volunteer locally.
• Reflection prompt: What’s one way you can contribute to the greater good in your community this week?

We’d love to hear your reflections on service. Tag @theroughdraft and share your story, or tell us about someone who’s inspired you to serve in your own way. Your words might help someone else remember they’re not alone.

Tim recalls his first mission as a National Guardsman—arriving to a protest site where “there were supposed to be thousands” but found only fifteen people and silence. Years later, that same sense of readiness turned to reality in Iraq, where one night’s split-second decision could mean life or loss. Denise and Tim talk about guilt, empathy, and what it means to “reset your filters” when coming home to a world that has kept moving.

• Reflect on your own form of service. Where do you contribute, and why does it matter to you?
• Make space for real stories—listen deeply, without comparison.

⚠️ Trigger Warning
This episode discusses suicidal thoughts and experiences. If you or someone you know is struggling, you are not alone. Help is available—call or text 988 to reach the Suicide and Crisis Lifeline (available 24/7 in the U.S.). You can also visit 988lifeline.org for chat and resources.

In this honest and emotional episode, Denise and Tim open up about the hardest chapters of their working lives. Tim shares the story of a toxic boss and the dark spiral that followed his return from deployment—when asking for help was seen as weakness and survival meant finding a way out. Denise reflects on the realities of leadership in education, from heartbreaking losses to systemic dysfunction that left her questioning her worth and purpose. Together, they unpack what happens when your identity, vocation, and humanity collide with unhealthy work systems—and how connection, compassion, and truth-telling can bring you back to the light.

What We Talk About

• How work can shape (and sometimes shatter) your sense of self
• The unseen struggles veterans face after returning home
• The emotional toll of leadership in education
• Why asking for help should never be viewed as weakness
• The impact of fear-based and disconnected workplace cultures
• Rediscovering purpose after loss and professional trauma
• The role of humanity and honesty in healing

Quote of the Episode

"You told me to ask for help—and then said I showed weakness for doing it." — Tim Waters

Conversation Starters

• Have you ever had a boss or job that made you question your worth? How did you find your way out?
• What does it mean to bring your full humanity into your work—and what happens when it’s not welcomed?
• How can we better support people—veterans, educators, or anyone—navigating burnout, trauma, or transition?

Resources & Mentions

Books & Reading
The Circle by Dave Eggers — A haunting look at corporate culture and the illusion of workplace perfection.
Ted Lasso (Apple TV+) — A reminder that empathy, humor, and humanity belong in leadership.

Articles & Research

• “Veteran Suicide and the Role of Transition Stress” — National Center for Veterans Studies
• “The Importance of Psychological Safety at Work” — Harvard Business Review

Tools & Practices

• Practice SafeTALK —training programs that teach how to safely talk about suicide and offer help.
• Reflection prompt: Write about a time you felt unseen or unsupported at work. What would you tell your past self now?

Connect & Reflect
We’d love to hear your story. Tag @theroughdraft and share what helped you through your hardest work season—or who showed up for you when you needed it most. Your story might help someone else feel less alone.

Mini Moment
Tim recalls gripping the steering wheel as his boss told him he’d “shown weakness” by asking for help—a moment that nearly broke him. Denise later shares her own breaking point: being told she wouldn’t have her contract renewed, not for performance, but simply for being who she was. Both stories reveal the cost of inhuman systems—and the courage it takes to keep showing up with heart.

Try This

• This week, ask someone at work how they’re really doing—and listen without fixing.
• Reflect on your boundaries: Where can you lead with more humanity, and where do you need more support yourself?

In this episode, Denise and Tim discuss their best and worst job experiences, reflecting on the lessons learned and the impact of workplace culture. They explore the importance of mentorship, leadership, and finding joy in work, while sharing personal stories from their careers at Eddie Bauer and other companies.

• Eddie Bauer was a formative experience for both speakers, teaching them valuable lessons about leadership and teamwork.
• The importance of a supportive and value-driven workplace culture is emphasized throughout the discussion.
• Both speakers reflect on the impact of mentors and leaders who shaped their careers positively.
• The conversation highlights the challenges of working in environments lacking empathy and support.
• Denise shares her experience as a principal, describing it as her worst job due to the lack of connection and support.
• The speakers discuss the significance of aligning personal values with organizational values in their careers.
• They emphasize the need for joy and passion in work, and how it affects overall job satisfaction.
• The episode explores the concept of 'fawning' in difficult work situations and the importance of authentic relationships.
• Both speakers express a desire to recreate the positive aspects of their past work environments in future roles.
• The discussion concludes with a call for listeners to share their own job experiences and insights.

Summary

In this conversation, Denise Waters shares her experiences with personal overwhelm, the challenges of parenting, and the differences in perspectives on sports and optimism. The discussion explores the balance between order and chaos in daily life, the dynamics of relationships, and the importance of understanding personal differences. Denise reflects on her journey of self-awareness and growth, emphasizing the need for grace and flexibility in navigating life's challenges.

Takeaways

• Denise discusses the physical toll of yard work and personal projects.
• The difference in raising a son versus a daughter is highlighted.
• Denise feels overwhelmed with various responsibilities and commitments.
• The conversation shifts to sports and differing perspectives on fandom.
• Denise expresses her desire for a hopeful approach to sports.
• The importance of understanding personal differences in relationships is emphasized.
• Denise reflects on her work-life balance and the chaos of parenting.
• The discussion includes how personal experiences shape perspectives on rules and order.
• Denise shares insights on how to navigate personal and professional challenges.
• The conversation concludes with reflections on personal growth and finding balance.

Keywords

yard projects, personal overwhelm, sports optimism, order vs chaos, relationship dynamics, parenting, self-awareness, personal growth, emotional intelligence, life balance

Episode Summary:

In this episode, Denise and Tim reflect on their recent trip to Italy, exploring how travel shapes perspectives and fosters connections. They share stories from Sorrento, Pompeii, and immersive experiences like cooking classes and guided walks. The conversation touches on travel challenges, teamwork, personal growth, and the excitement of planning future adventures.

What We Talk About:

• How travel broadens perspectives and challenges assumptions.
• The importance of teamwork when navigating travel obstacles.
• Experiencing local culture through cooking, walking tours, and farm stays.
• Historical insights from Pompeii and other sites.
• Personal growth and self-reflection inspired by travel.
• Building connections with travel companions and locals.

Quote of the Episode:

“Travel reveals not just the world around us, but who we are within it.”

Conversation Starters:

• What’s a travel experience that changed how you see the world—or yourself?
• How do you navigate challenges when traveling with others?
• Which cultural experiences have surprised or inspired you most while traveling?

Resources & Mentions:

• The Blue Walk — Guided walking vacations across Italy and Europe that combine culture, nature, and slow travel experiences.
• Golden Dream Farm — A travel-stay experience that offers immersive cultural environments and local tradition.

Connect & Reflect:

Think about a recent trip you took. What did you learn about yourself or the people you traveled with? Tag us @theroughdraft and share your reflection or insight.
For more stories about travel, connection, and personal growth, visit deniseleighwaters.com/ourroughdraft

Mini Moment:

Tim shares a moment during a Sorrento hike when a simple miscommunication turned into a memorable story about teamwork and patience.

Try This:

On your next trip—big or small—pause to notice how navigating challenges together changes the experience. Ask someone in your travel group for their perspective on a shared moment and see how it deepens your connection.