These days I sometimes have to remind myself to keep breathing. I think this is true of human beings across all of our differences and divides. But in a room in New York City just before the turn of this year, I was regrounded by this fierce and joyous conversation with Joy Harjo and Tracy K. Smith.

I invite you to settle into your soft breathing body with these two wise women as companions and with a sense of poetry as a technology, as Tracy describes in her new book: a technology for rising to our truest, highest selves, even amidst grief and mystery and danger, and bearing witness to each other as we do so.

I think all of us in the room left a little more lighthearted and alive as this conversation unfolded. I hope that will be your experience too.

Tracy K. Smith and Joy Harjo are former U.S. poet laureates, beloved On Being guests, and friends. They are each wildly and deservedly awarded and not just as poets — Tracy also as a teacher and professor at Harvard, Joy as a saxophonist and painter. We were brought together at Symphony Space in Manhattan to celebrate their newest books: Fear Less by Tracy and Girl Warrior by Joy.

Find an excellent transcript of this show, edited by humans, on our show page.

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Joy Harjo was the 23rd Poet Laureate of the United States. Among many honors, she has received the Poetry Society of America's Frost Medal and a National Humanities Medal. She is the inau­gur­al Artist-in-Res­i­dence for the Bob Dylan Cen­ter in Tul­sa, Okla­homa. She lives on the Musco­gee Nation Reser­va­tion in Oklahoma. Her new book of essays is Girl Warrior. Forthcoming in 2026 is her 12th book of poetry and a new album co-produced with esperanza spalding.

Tracy K. Smith was the 22nd Poet Laureate of the United States. She teaches at Harvard University, where she is Boylston Professor of Rhetoric and Oratory, Professor of African and African American Studies, and Susan S. and Kenneth L. Wallach Professor at the Harvard Radcliffe Institute. Among her many honors, she has been awarded the Pulitzer Prize for Poetry and is a Chancellor of the American Academy of Arts and Sciences. Her new memoir is Fear Less.

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Five new On Being episodes will begin to roll out next week …

We begin with the delightful beloved poets (and friends) Joy Harjo and Tracy K. Smith in conversation together with Krista. We move on to the neuroscientist Gül Dölen; a community of Israelis and Palestinians who will expand your heart and moral imagination; philosopher rabbi Shai Held; and, because we can't get enough of him, a wonderful new sit-down with Krista and Jason Reynolds on hope in this time and in friendship with the young in our world.

All of them offer beauty and pragmatic nourishment for ourselves and for witnessing each other's hurt and each other's promise. There is searching and pondering on what love really means and how it works and what hope can mean in this world in which hopelessness feels so reasonable. And be prepared to be amazed in an introduction to majestic learning underway about new, transformative healing of our brains and our lives emerging from the frontier of psychedelically-assisted therapeutic treatments.

Please help us spread the word, and join us!

Sign yourself and others up for The Pause to be on our mailing list for all things On Being and to receive Krista's monthly Saturday newsletter, including a heads up on new episodes, special offerings, recommendations, and event invitations.

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The great primatologist and humanitarian, Jane Goodall, died on October 1, 2025, at the age of 91. It is a joy and a comfort to revisit our last broadcast of her 2020 conversation with Krista. Jane Goodall began her epic work studying chimpanzees in the Gombe forest without even a college degree. The science she proceeded to do recalled modern western science to the fact that we are a part of nature, not separate from it. She spent the last decades of her life on the road, often with the young, tending to human fear and misunderstanding. In this beautiful conversation from pandemic lockdown, she shared the moral and spiritual wisdom that emerged in her extraordinary life — and the hope that, to the end, sustained her.

Jane Goodall was the founder of the Jane Goodall Institute and its youth program, Roots & Shoots. She has been the subject of many films and documentaries, including “Jane Goodall: The Hope.” Her many books include In the Shadow of Man, Reason for Hope: A Spiritual Journey, and most recently, The Book of Hope: A Survival Guide for Trying Times.

Find the transcript for this show at onbeing.org.

This show originally aired in August, 2020.

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