These days I sometimes have to remind myself to keep breathing. I think this is true of human beings across all of our differences and divides. But in a room in New York City just before the turn of this year, I was regrounded by this fierce and joyous conversation with Joy Harjo and Tracy K. Smith.

I invite you to settle into your soft breathing body with these two wise women as companions and with a sense of poetry as a technology, as Tracy describes in her new book: a technology for rising to our truest, highest selves, even amidst grief and mystery and danger, and bearing witness to each other as we do so.

I think all of us in the room left a little more lighthearted and alive as this conversation unfolded. I hope that will be your experience too.

Tracy K. Smith and Joy Harjo are former U.S. poet laureates, beloved On Being guests, and friends. They are each wildly and deservedly awarded and not just as poets — Tracy also as a teacher and professor at Harvard, Joy as a saxophonist and painter. We were brought together at Symphony Space in Manhattan to celebrate their newest books: Fear Less by Tracy and Girl Warrior by Joy.

Find an excellent transcript of this show, edited by humans, on our show page.

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Joy Harjo was the 23rd Poet Laureate of the United States. Among many honors, she has received the Poetry Society of America's Frost Medal and a National Humanities Medal. She is the inau­gur­al Artist-in-Res­i­dence for the Bob Dylan Cen­ter in Tul­sa, Okla­homa. She lives on the Musco­gee Nation Reser­va­tion in Oklahoma. Her new book of essays is Girl Warrior. Forthcoming in 2026 is her 12th book of poetry and a new album co-produced with esperanza spalding.

Tracy K. Smith was the 22nd Poet Laureate of the United States. She teaches at Harvard University, where she is Boylston Professor of Rhetoric and Oratory, Professor of African and African American Studies, and Susan S. and Kenneth L. Wallach Professor at the Harvard Radcliffe Institute. Among her many honors, she has been awarded the Pulitzer Prize for Poetry and is a Chancellor of the American Academy of Arts and Sciences. Her new memoir is Fear Less.

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