Fawning isn’t a flaw to fix. It is a brilliant survival response that can quietly shape your entire identity until you finally have the words for it.

In this episode, I sit down with clinical psychologist and author Ingrid Clayton for a conversation that I know will resonate deeply with so many of you. We talk about fawning, what it is, how it shows up, and why it’s so often misunderstood. If you’ve ever felt like you disappeared in a relationship or lost touch with your own needs just to keep someone else happy, you’re not alone. And chances are, your nervous system was doing exactly what it needed to do to keep you safe.

Ingrid shares her own story as a survivor of complex trauma, and how that experience shaped the work she does now. We explore the difference between trauma that’s tied to a single event and the kind that builds over time in ways that can be hard to name. We talk about what healing actually looks like, how to start reconnecting with yourself, how to recognize the patterns that no longer serve you, and how to hold space for the grief that sometimes comes with change.

This isn’t a conversation filled with quick fixes or five-step plans. It’s honest and validating. If you’ve ever asked yourself, “Why do I keep doing this?” or “What’s wrong with me?” I hope this episode helps you see that nothing about you is broken. There’s a reason for the patterns. And there’s also a way through.

Episode Breakdown:

00:00 Introduction

02:08 How Personal Experience with Trauma Shaped Dr. Ingrid Clayton’s Work

03:17 What Complex Trauma Really Looks Like

10:20 Fawning as a Smart and Adaptive Trauma Response

14:03 Why Codependency and People-Pleasing Miss the Point

20:20 Real-Life Examples of Fawning in Adulthood

27:20 Why Trauma-Informed Therapy Matters

30:10 Rebuilding a Relationship with Yourself

36:09 How Healing Can Change Your Closest Relationships

40:41 Dr. Clayton’s Message to Anyone Who Feels Broken

Links

Book: Believing Me https://amzn.to/4lkulGy

Website: https://www.ingridclayton.com/

Preorder ‘Fawning’ here: https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/779579/fawning-by-dr-ingrid-clayton/

https://www.instagram.com/ingridclaytonphd/

Connect with Dr. Z: https://www.drjaimezuckerman.com/

https://www.zgrouptherapy.com/

https://www.instagram.com/dr.z_psychologist/

https://www.tiktok.com/@dr.z_psychologist

https://www.youtube.com/@DrJaimeZuckerman

Get my FREE breathing exercise here: http://www.drjaimezuckerman.com/newsletter

Register for my on demand virtual courses here: http://www.drjaimezuckerman.com/workshops

Order my workbooks! *Find Your Calm / Find Good Habits* http://www.drjaimezuckerman.com/books

Shop my new Mindfully Messy hoodie here: http://www.drjaimezuckerman.com/apparel

Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

Most people don’t realize how much of their relationship pain comes from patterns they never chose and beliefs they never questioned, and I’ve seen it over and over again.

In this episode, I’m joined by someone I’ve admired for a long time, relationship expert and author Jillian Turecki. Her new book, “It Begins With You: The Nine Hard Truths About Love That Will Change Your Life,” is the kind of work that doesn’t just offer advice. It asks you to look inward. We talk about the ways we lose ourselves in relationships, the lies we tell ourselves to keep people close, and what it really means to grow after heartbreak. What does healthy love even look like? How do we know when we’re giving too much? Why do so many of us feel like we have to convince someone to stay?

Jillian shares so much of her insight and experience in this conversation: why deal breakers matter, how our family stories shape our love lives, and what it actually means to make peace with the past. One of the most powerful takeaways for me was her perspective on forgiveness, and how letting go doesn’t always mean condoning someone’s behavior. Sometimes it just means refusing to carry the story anymore.

If you’ve ever felt stuck, questioned your worth in a relationship, or wondered why you keep ending up in the same kind of dynamic, this one’s for you. I hope it leaves you feeling seen… and more importantly, ready to take your power back.

Episode Breakdown:

00:00 Jillian Turecki and Her Work

03:14 The Importance of Self-Reflection in Relationships

06:00 Defining Healthy Love

08:49 Understanding Deal Breakers in Relationships

11:57 The Complexity of Relationship Dynamics

15:08 The Myth of Fairy Tale Love

18:01 The Challenge of Convincing Someone to Love You

20:59 Processing Breakups and Moving Forward

24:00 Making Peace with Your Parents

36:49 Final Thoughts and Words of Wisdom

Links

Connect with Jillian Turecki:

https://www.jillianturecki.com/book

https://www.instagram.com/jillianturecki/?hl=en

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/jillian-on-love/id1640172049

Connect with Dr. Z: https://www.drjaimezuckerman.com/

https://www.zgrouptherapy.com/

https://www.instagram.com/dr.z_psychologist/

https://www.tiktok.com/@dr.z_psychologist

https://www.youtube.com/@DrJaimeZuckerman

Get my FREE breathing exercise here: http://www.drjaimezuckerman.com/newsletter

Register for my on demand virtual courses here: http://www.drjaimezuckerman.com/workshops

Order my workbooks! *Find Your Calm / Find Good Habits* http://www.drjaimezuckerman.com/books

Shop my new Mindfully Messy hoodie here: http://www.drjaimezuckerman.com/apparel

Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

Toxic relationships don’t usually start with obvious red flags. More often, they start with connection, someone who seems to really see you, who shows up in big ways, who makes you feel chosen. But over time, that connection can shift into something confusing, isolating, and hard to recognize for what it is.

I talk with Elizabeth Chambers, Host, Investigative Journalist and Executive Producer of the docuseries “Toxic,” about the psychological patterns behind abusive relationships - how they take shape, why they’re so easy to miss, and what keeps people from leaving. Elizabeth shares the stories of survivors she interviewed, many of whom came from loving, stable homes and never expected to end up in something harmful.

We also get into how culture plays a role. The fairytales we grow up with, the rom-com tropes, the magazines that taught us how to “get the guy” - they all send messages that can make it easier for abusers to gain trust and control. And when someone starts tailoring themselves to your vulnerabilities, mirroring your interests, slowly taking over the parts of your life that matter most, it rarely looks like abuse in the moment.

I talk through the tools I see used again and again in narcissistic relationships - love bombing, gaslighting, financial control - and how easy it is for good, smart people to get caught in them. And we explore what real support looks like when someone you care about is stuck in a relationship that’s hurting them.

This episode is a reminder to pay attention. To stay curious. To talk about the things we’re taught to keep private. Because awareness is the first step, and no one should have to figure it out alone.

Episode Breakdown:

00:00 Introduction to Narcissism and Healing

02:52 The Impact of Toxic Relationships

05:53 Recognizing Generational and Cultural Patterns

11:57 Why It’s So Hard to Leave

18:09 Love Bombing and Emotional Control

24:06 Red Flags and Manipulation Tactics

30:06 The Psychology Behind Abuse

34:25 Power, Intimacy, and Control

41:07 Communication and Relationship Imbalances

49:49 How Friends and Family Can Help

51:32 Breaking the Cycle for Future Generations

Links

Watch Toxic on Max: https://www.max.com/shows/toxic/33977981-2e30-45d2-98c6-3145f9c40b33

https://www.instagram.com/elizabethchambers/

Connect with Dr. Z: https://www.drjaimezuckerman.com/

https://www.zgrouptherapy.com/

https://www.instagram.com/dr.z_psychologist/

https://www.tiktok.com/@dr.z_psychologist

https://www.youtube.com/@DrJaimeZuckerman

Get my FREE breathing exercise here: http://www.drjaimezuckerman.com/newsletter

Register for my on demand virtual courses here: http://www.drjaimezuckerman.com/workshops

Order my workbooks! *Find Your Calm / Find Good Habits* http://www.drjaimezuckerman.com/books

Shop my new Mindfully Messy hoodie here: http://www.drjaimezuckerman.com/apparel

Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm