Wake Forest 38, NC State 14, and the thing nobody around this program has said out loud yet.

Somewhere in the middle of this one we land on the comparison that explains the whole season. Two people in a middle school relationship who have stopped talking to each other. Everybody in the school knows it is over. Nobody has gone to the other person and said it. Greg's version is worse and probably more accurate: the kids have moved out, it has been thirty years, and both of them are waiting for the other one to wake up and say they are done.

Ethan has nothing to say about the game itself. State got smoked. What he wants to talk about is a roster he does not believe is good enough, why NC State overpays its own guys and underuses the portal, and why Wake Forest, who just beat us with a quarterback making a fraction of what CJ Bailey makes, has it right.

The proof is not the loss. It is the adjustments. First three drives of the game: NC State 175 yards, Wake Forest 27. Next five drives: NC State 45, Wake Forest 360. And a head coach who walked straight to the tunnel instead of through the high five line with the fans.

We get into the Steven Godfrey report that Doeren is not going anywhere midseason but institutional changes are coming, what that means for Boo Corrigan, and why Thanksgiving is the real deadline. Ethan also explains why the Patreon episode he recorded on Saturday never came out.

Grinds My Gears is the student section, and Greg has two fixes for it.

What would you do first? Find us on Twitter and Instagram @tuffytalknow.

Tuffy Talk is live every Monday at 8:30 PM. Football all fall, basketball all winter, baseball all spring. Follow the show wherever you get your podcasts so you never miss one.

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