Tim Loughton, former Children's Minister, talks to Sally about the importance of listening directly to children when making policy. Tim also reflects on what makes research relevant, and of the value of Ministers getting out on the "front line" to see things for themselves. We talk about why children are not enough of a priority, the frustration of issues falling down governments' agendas, and the role Back Bench MPs can play in holding governments to account.

Professor Sir Harry Burns, Former Chief Medical Officer in Scotland, talks to Sally about how he gave up surgery to work in Public Health because he saw that his patients needed better wellbeing, not more surgery. Harry reflects on the science that led him to advocate for investment in early childhood, the importance of collecting data, and the value of improvement science approaches. We hear about what can be achieved when working with politicians who are "clever, nice people".

Sir Peter Wanless, CEO of the NSPCC, talks to Sally about the role that charities can play in supporting research, development and innovation in public services. Peter also reflects on his time in the civil service, and the role of evidence, data and insight in driving up the quality of schools and children's services. We discuss the importance of local services and systems understanding children and families and finding sustainable solutions that take account of different contexts (and there's a good anecdote about Ed Balls and Dolly Parton).