Hurting people are not a disruption to ministry. They are the ministry.

In this episode of Ministry Mix, Phil Gifford and Richard Pope walk through eight practical and pastoral reminders for caring well for people who are suffering. Whether the hurt comes from grief, sin, trauma, broken relationships, or life in a fallen world, ministry leaders must learn how to offer real care that reflects the heart of Jesus.

This conversation moves beyond clichés and quick fixes and helps leaders slow down, listen well, and shepherd people with wisdom, truth, and compassion.

If you lead people in any capacity, this episode will help you care for hurting people without burning out, enabling sin, or minimizing pain.

What You’ll Learn in This Episode

• Why hurting people are unavoidable if you’re doing ministry faithfully
• How to affirm God’s love when people are tempted to doubt it
• Why presence often matters more than perfect words
• How to ask better questions and listen more effectively
• When and how to bring Scripture into moments of pain
• Why careless Bible verses can do more harm than good
• How to speak hard truths with grace and clarity
• Why consistency and community are essential for long-term care

Key Quote:

“Shepherding the flock means more than teaching truth. It means applying truth to tears, doubts, and wounds.”

Connect With Us

If this episode helped you, make sure to:

• Subscribe to Ministry Mix
• Leave a review to help others find the show
• Join the Ministry Mix Facebook Group to continue the conversation
• Join our GroupMe

In this episode of Ministry Mix, Phil and Richard sit down with Next Gen Pastor at Canvas, David Elliot, who has rapidly grown from serving in a nursery with two kids to leading a full Next Gen ministry that includes children, parents, volunteers, and a newly launched teen ministry. David works bivocationally and represents the reality of many ministry leaders juggling calling, work, and ministry growth.

Together, the guys unpack three core questions David brought to the table and end with six practical ways to scale your ministry without sacrificing health or culture.

1. How fast should you scale a volunteer into a leader?

2. How do you know someone is ready for the next step?

3. When do you give a new leader autonomy?

1. Invest in leaders, not just labor.

2. Develop before you grow.

3. Systematize what already works.

4. Clarify values and mission.

5. Empower decision-making.

6. Guard culture relentlessly.

Scaling your ministry is not about adding programs. It is about multiplying leaders, clarifying culture, and building systems that allow discipleship to flourish as your church grows.

In this episode of The Ministry Mix Podcast, Phil and Richard sit down with their friend Josh, pastor of Cross & Anchor Church in Detroit, to explore a story filled with calling, closed doors, disappointment, grit, and God’s surprising redirection.
Josh shares the compelling journey he and his wife walked—from serving in Montana, to believing God was calling them to plant a church in London, to being unexpectedly detained at Heathrow Airport, sent back to the U.S., and forced into a two-year season they never anticipated.

Through moments of shock, grief, confusion, and wrestling, Josh describes how God reshaped their hearts, refined their calling, and ultimately led them to Detroit. His story offers deep encouragement for pastors and ministry leaders who feel stuck, discouraged, or tempted to quit.

This is a raw, honest, hope-filled look at what it means to discern God’s will in uncertainty, endure the dark-room seasons of development, and keep moving forward when quitting feels easier.

Key Themes:

1. When Calling Collides with Reality
2. The “Dark Room” Season of Development
3. How Do You Know When to Push Through or Pivot?
4. Why You Shouldn’t Quit on Your Worst Day
5. God’s Provision on the Other Side of Obedience


Key Quotes:

“What you sow doesn’t come to life unless it dies.”
“Don’t quit. You can’t see the fulfillment of the dream if you quit.”
“God develops us in the dark room so we can carry what He gives us later.”
“Quit on Monday if you need to, but show back up on Tuesday.”

Who This Episode Is For:

Church planters navigating uncertainty
Pastors wrestling with discouragement
Leaders dealing with roadblocks or doubt
Anyone trying to discern the difference between perseverance and redirection
Ministry teams needing a reminder that God is faithful through “the in-between”