In this important conversation David Jones and Dr Naomi Murphy talk about why so many boys underachieve at school with Mike Bell. And why has so little research been done on this subject?

Mike is a former science teacher, evidence-based teaching trainer, author of Fundamentals of Teaching, founder of the All-Party Parliamentary Group on Men and Boys issues, and lead researcher for the APPG’s 2023 inquiry into boys’ educational underachievement, explains the findings behind his latest book ‘Yes He Can’. He argues that boys’ underachievement is real, widespread, and not inevitable.

(https://www.amazon.co.uk/Closing-Attainment-Boys-Secondary-School/dp/1041242158)

We discuss the data behind the attainment gap, why the problem is most visible in secondary school, and what six British schools did to close the gap without extra resources or special training. Mike also challenges common assumptions about male teachers, toxic masculinity, and the causes of boys’ poor outcomes.

Key topics

Why Yes He Can is built largely from teacher transcripts and school practice, not theory

The size of the attainment gap from school readiness through GCSEs, A levels, and university

Why the gap narrows in primary school but widens again in secondary school

How primary teachers’ close knowledge of pupils creates more individualised support

The consequences of boys’ underachievement, including disengagement, NEET outcomes, and wider social costs

Why some boys become hostile to school when they feel lost, punished, and misunderstood

How school culture can become a place where boys actually want to come

Why the research base is weaker than people assume, despite widespread concern

Why Mike does not see male teacher shortages as the main explanation

Why the schools he studied were effective because they shared intentions, not identical methods

Timestamps (Approx)

00:00 - Technical setup and Mike Bell’s introduction

01:47 - What Yes He Can is about

03:27 - How the APPG inquiry led to the book

06:28 - The attainment gap from primary school to university

09:59 - Why secondary school widens the gap

11:30 - Social consequences of boys switching off

13:42 - Making school a place boys want to come to

15:16 - How school structure affects less able pupils

17:10 - Why boys were once seen as advantaged and girls as disadvantaged

18:57 - How the six schools were found and why primary practice mattered

20:26 - Why the research base on boys’ underachievement is so weak

23:33 - What the six successful schools had in common

24:58 - Why male teachers are not the key solution

26:58 - Why he rejects toxic masculinity as the root cause