"We are not machines; we are living things. And the church is not a factory; it is a garden."

What are the images that shape your ministry? For many leaders, the dominant metaphors are often corporate or industrial—efficiency, scale, and production. But as the cultural landscape shifts, many pastors are finding these images are no longer sufficient for the soul-work of the local church.

In this episode, I’m joined by Dr. Matt Erickson, Senior Pastor of Eastbrook Church in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. Matt brings a unique blend of urban pastoral experience and a deep commitment to the Christian imagination. A graduate of the Eugene Peterson Center for Christian Imagination, Matt has spent years thinking through how the metaphors we use dictate the health of our leadership.

We discuss his new book, The Pastor as Gardener: A Renewed Vision for Ministry (releasing at the end of March). Matt shares why he believes the image of the gardener offers a more resilient, organic, and faithful way to lead in a complex world.

In this conversation, we explore:

• Why the "CEO" or "Manager" metaphors are failing the modern pastor.
• The patient, rhythmic work of "tending the soil" in an urban, multiracial context.
• How the Eugene Peterson Center influenced his vision for pastoral ministry.
• Practical ways to shift your leadership from a mindset of production to one of cultivation.

About Matt Erickson

Matt Erickson has served as the Senior Pastor at Eastbrook Church since 2011. He holds a Doctor of Ministry from Western Theological Seminary. Matt and his wife, Kelly, live in Milwaukee and are the parents of three adult children.