Quiet fatigue rarely announces itself. It hums under the surface until a crisis forces a decision.

In this conversation, Marine veteran and Forte co-founder Vineet Rajan reframes care for leaders as mental fitness - a proactive, daily practice that keeps pastors and nonprofit teams clear-headed, resilient, and ready.

We contrast mental fitness with therapy, name the everyday pressures leaders face, and offer accessible rhythms that fit real life.

You’ll hear why churches are becoming early adopters, how to reduce noise so you can notice what God is saying, and why outcomes - not just usage - should drive board decisions.

If you lead people, steward budgets, or carry a call that feels heavier than it used to, this episode gives you language, guardrails, and next steps to strengthen your team without adding shame or hype.

Key Takeaways

• Mental fitness is proactive training; therapy is reactive care for acute needs. Both matter.
• Leaders fight three constants: entropy, the enemy, and evil - training helps us endure them.
• Preventative care beats crisis management; reduce interior noise to increase signal.
• Ministries love the model because it separates staff care from supervisory entanglements.
• Outcomes matter: increased productivity and well-being translate to real ROI.
• Accessibility drives adoption: mobile scheduling, short sessions, and confidentiality.

Chapter Markers

• 00:00 Welcome and setup
• 01:00 Vineet’s backstory: immigrant kid to Marine officer
• 04:00 What is Forte and who they serve
• 05:45 Mental fitness vs mental health - clear differences
• 09:20 Preventative maintenance and the “office vent” analogy
• 11:45 The three E’s: entropy, enemy, evil
• 15:00 Why churches became early adopters
• 19:30 EAPs, engagement, and outcomes that matter
• 22:05 The secret sauce: accessibility and aspiration
• 25:40 From interrogation training to loving people well
• 29:00 Vision: organizations solving big problems, people known and whole
• 31:15 Next steps for leaders and teams
• 33:30 Closing and partnership

When leaders hit quiet fatigue, care starts with community. Ministry Transitions walks with pastors and ministry leaders through seasons of loss, burnout, and change - helping them rediscover clarity and calling. Visit ministrytransitions.com.

For mental fitness solutions, Forte serves both sides of the mission field. Explore getforte.com/faith for Christian organizations, businesses, and nonprofits, or getforte.com for teams in the broader marketplace looking to build resilience and clarity.

When a beloved role ends, identity gets loud.

In this candid conversation, Joshua Gordon traces his journey from ministry-adjacent entrepreneur to a surprising new assignment after his business collapsed in COVID. A trusted friend’s hard words, deep prayer, and patient community became “spiritual physio” that restored his sense of self in Christ.

We talk about the gap between intention and impact in church transitions, why being “driven” can hide quiet desperation, and how to hear God’s still small voice before things are literally on fire.

Josh shares the practical and pastoral moves that protected his marriage, his kids, and his future calling.

If you are a leader facing an ending, a board guiding one, or a pastor recovering from one, this episode offers language, wisdom, and hope. Faithfulness isn’t empire building. It’s walking with Jesus in ordinary choices that shape a lifetime.

• Intention without action creates collateral damage in transitions.
• “Driven” can be desperation in disguise; identity must relocate from role to Christ.
• God often speaks through memory, community, and quiet checks in the soul.
• Invite truth-telling friends. Love risks being misunderstood to protect you.
• Over-preparation can be control; trust requires limits on our need to manage outcomes.
• Measure success by faithfulness to Jesus and people, not by platform.
• Healthy endings open a window for deep heart work and future freedom.

• 00:00 Cold open, Canadians and calling
• 03:20 Intention vs impact in church transitions
• 07:30 PK expectations and disillusionment
• 10:20 Building a ministry-minded business
• 12:40 COVID collapse and costly layoffs
• 16:20 Untangling identity from role
• 18:45 A memory from God that exposed motive
• 28:55 “Physio” for the soul and daily trust
• 38:00 Friendship that told the hard truth
• 47:50 Closing one work, starting another
• 52:15 Learning to follow quiet discernment
• 59:30 Wealth redefined: family, faith, and freedom
• 1:04:15 Kingdom over empire, final blessing

If you’re facing a ministry transition - or helping someone through one - visit MinistryTransitions.com to find confidential guidance, resources, and hope for what’s next.

For more from Joshua Gordon and The Lead Pastor, visit here: https://theleadpastor.com/

When the New York Times ran with allegations surrounding Willow Creek’s founding pastor, Steve Carter had a choice: keep the machine running or protect the trust of the people in the room. He chose integrity - and walked away from the stage that had defined his career.

In this conversation, Steve names the real costs: the silence inside the institution, the “values higher than the chaos” that guided him, and the morning-after reality that there was no job, no safety net, and no way to control the narrative.

He talks about the anger he absorbed, the outside leaders who showed up, and the therapist’s hard question that kept him from repeating patterns.

But the story doesn’t end in exile. It moves through a real wilderness - grief, breathing, waiting - and into a humbler, healthier life: moving back to the Midwest, choosing place over platform, and becoming the lead pastor at Christ Church. What emerges is a field guide for anyone facing a crisis of integrity in Christian leadership.

• Integrity over institutional preservation: Trust is sacred; don’t trade it for optics.
• Name “values higher than the chaos”: Decide in advance what you won’t violate when pressure comes.
• Healing is not transferable: There’s first-hand wounding and first-hand healing; your family needs its own path.
• Interrogate attraction to unhealthy systems: Ask why certain leaders and cultures feel “safe.”
• Grief takes the time it takes: Practice a Holy Saturday rhythm - don’t rush from Friday to Sunday.
• Choose place over platform: Calling is often geographic and relational, not positional.
• Lead from scars, not spin: Wounds can become witness when truth is told and humility is practiced.

• 00:00 — Cold open: Why transitions are never just “staff changes”
• 04:53 — “These are my people”: the early joy at Willow
• 06:47 — Crisis emerges; what repentance would have required
• 09:14 — The headlines drop; “I won’t play with people’s trust”
• 11:52 — Who can you trust when the room is spinning?
• 17:22 — Six options, and why pastoring again wasn’t one of them
• 19:26 — Therapist’s jolt: “Why are you drawn to narcissists?”
• 22:16 — Outside support vs. inside backlash; the binder of messages
• 25:34 — Reframing the anger; learning what people were really saying
• 27:59 — Starbucks incident; a son’s question about “reward”
• 33:25 — Grieve, Breathe, Receive: the Holy Weekend framework
• 36:53 — Wilderness theology: disorientation to reorientation
• 39:36 — Reentry: discerning a safe, healthy church
• 41:33 — “Steve of Chicagoland”: called to a place, not a position
• 43:50 — Inner Hybels and inner Ortberg: action and formation
• 47:20 — Staying in touch; practicing faithfulness, not fame

If you’re walking through a ministry transition or facing hard decisions about leadership, you don’t have to do it alone. Visit MinistryTransitions.com to explore resources, donate to support a leader in the thick of change, or book a confidential call.

You can also learn more about Steve Carter’s ministry and resources through Christ Church of Oak Brook and by picking up his book Grieve, Breathe, Receive at stevecarter.org/book.

Many pastors find themselves at the end of their ministry career unable to retire - not because they lack calling, but because they lack financial security. Churches often avoid the money conversation, leaving leaders stuck in the pulpit longer than they should be.

In this episode, financial strategist Gabe Pelphrey opens the curtain on why retirement planning for ministry leaders so often gets ignored. He explains the unique challenges pastors face, the role boards must play, and the courageous conversations that make succession possible.

This isn’t just about money - it’s about stewardship, legacy, and ensuring both leaders and churches are prepared for what’s next.

Key Takeaways

• Why many pastors cannot financially afford to retire
• The board’s role in annual compensation and planning reviews
• How rabbi trusts and deferred compensation plans protect leaders and churches
• The danger of assuming “God will provide” without planning
• Why courageous conversations about money and succession matter
• How retrospective compensation studies address past underpayment
• Why planning early ensures dignity, security, and peace in transitions

Chapter Markers 00:00 – Welcome & Introductions 01:20 – The hidden financial crisis in pastoral transitions 03:45 – Who holds responsibility: pastor or board? 06:15 – When pastors retire into poverty 08:00 – Unique financial tools for churches (rabbi trusts, 403b9s) 10:13 – Stewardship and courageous conversations 13:27 – Strongholds around money in ministry 16:40 – Poverty mindset vs. extravagant misconceptions 20:06 – Retrospective compensation studies explained 22:53 – Gabe’s background and calling into this work 25:06 – How Stewarded serves churches and nonprofits 27:00 – Why Ministry Transitions + Stewarded work hand-in-hand 32:29 – Preview of joint webinar

Retirement should not punish calling. Visit stewarded.io to schedule a strategy session. Build a clear roadmap with your board using tools like 403(b)(9) plans, rabbi trusts, deferred compensation, and retrospective compensation studies so your pastor can finish with dignity and your church stays strong.

If succession or a financial crunch is on the horizon, do not walk it alone. Go to ministrytransitions.com to book a confidential call. We help pastors and boards craft integrity-first transition plans that protect people, steward resources, and prepare your church for what’s next.

Behind every thriving ministry is a foundation you can’t always see - standards, accountability, and trust. Without them, the most passionate vision can unravel overnight.

In this episode of Life After Ministry, ECFA’s Jake Lapp explains why accountability matters not just for auditors and boards but for pastors, leaders, and anyone entrusted with Kingdom resources.

He shares how ECFA’s standards were designed to serve ministries, not stifle them, and how transparency is one of the clearest ways leaders reflect Christ’s call to integrity.

If you’ve ever wondered whether accountability hinders or helps ministry, Jake’s perspective reframes the conversation. This episode offers a framework for leaders who want to guard the mission, protect their people, and leave behind a legacy of trust.

• Accountability is not bureaucracy - it’s discipleship.
• Transparency builds trust faster than vision statements.
• Financial integrity protects both leaders and the people they serve.
• ECFA standards are guardrails, not red tape.
• Trust is earned in drops but lost in buckets.
• Healthy structures create freedom, not restriction.
• Integrity in hidden details sustains visible ministry.

• 00:00 – Introduction to ECFA and Jake Lapp
• 02:05 – Why Accountability Matters in Ministry
• 05:20 – The Role of ECFA Standards
• 09:45 – How Transparency Builds Trust
• 13:10 – Common Pitfalls Leaders Face
• 17:25 – Trust, Integrity, and Long-Term Sustainability
• 21:40 – Encouragement for Leaders in Transition

Strengthen the foundation you cannot see. Visit ECFA.org to review the Seven Standards, explore practical tools, and begin a clear pathway toward accreditation. Build transparency that protects people, guards the mission, and reflects Christ’s call to integrity.

If a transition is on the horizon, do not carry it alone. Go to MinistryTransitions.com to book a confidential call and build an integrity-first plan that safeguards your people and purpose. If you’re able, give to make this support possible for another leader.

What happens when the very act of caring for others leaves you depleted?

Laura Howe, founder of Hope Made Strong, knows firsthand the toll of compassion fatigue. From her own season of burnout came a global movement equipping churches to address mental health with wisdom and grace.

In this conversation, Laura shares her personal journey from exhaustion to renewed purpose. She reminds us that burnout is not a moral failure, but a workplace hazard for anyone serving in caregiving roles.

With honesty and clarity, she explains what resilience truly looks like, how to know when you’ve moved from “yellow” into “red,” and why churches must begin addressing mental health as part of whole-life discipleship.

For leaders in transition, this episode offers a lifeline. You’ll hear not only practical wisdom but also the hope that God redeems what feels wasted.

Whether you’re a pastor, a board member, or someone carrying unseen weight, Laura’s insights offer courage to pause, refuel, and continue faithfully.

• Burnout and compassion fatigue are hazards of caregiving, not signs of weakness or sin.
• Resilience is less about powering through and more about bouncing back.
• Ministry leaders must learn to recognize their “zone” on the green-yellow-orange-red scale.
• Sustainable care in churches means creating belonging, purpose, and hope - not acting as clinics.
• The Church has a unique capacity to support mental health across every stage of life.
• Global interest in integrating faith and mental health is rising rapidly.
• Hope Made Strong and the Church Mental Health Summit provide free, practical resources.

• 00:00 – Introduction to Laura Howe and Hope Made Strong
• 01:10 – Laura’s Burnout Story and Birth of Hope Made Strong
• 03:13 – Understanding Compassion Fatigue and Resilience
• 06:12 – How Do You Know It’s Time for a Change?
• 09:17 – From Red Zone to Hope Made Strong
• 12:15 – Sustainability and the Church’s Responsibility
• 16:04 – Why the Church Must Embrace Mental Health
• 19:50 – Launching the Church Mental Health Summit
• 23:25 – Personal Reflection and Final Encouragement

If this episode stirred something in you, take a next step: visit MinistryTransitions.com to book a confidential call about an upcoming transition, termination, or succession - or give to help another leader get timely support. Then head to HopeMadeStrong.org to equip your team for sustainable care by registering for the Church Mental Health Summit and accessing practical tools for your church.

What if the missing piece in your leadership is not more strategy but more empathy?

Bill and Kristi Gaultiere say empathy is oxygen for the soul, and many leaders are gasping without realizing it.

They join Matt to unpack how Jesus models secure attachment with the Father and how we can receive and reflect that love in daily life.

Bill and Kristi name the empathy deserts many of us grew up in, why ministry culture often rewards self-neglect, and how receiving care is not a luxury. It is discipleship.

The conversation lands with the Four A’s of Empathy. Ask. Attune. Acknowledge. Affirm. Practice these, and watch connection and courage return.

If you are ending a role, beginning again, or preparing for a hard meeting, this episode offers biblical wisdom and field-tested tools to do hard things with Jesus’ easy yoke.

• Empathy is not sentimentality. It is the way love becomes believable and actionable. “We love because He first loved us.”
• Many leaders grew up in empathy deserts. Naming this breaks shame and opens us to care.
• Jesus models secure attachment with the Father. Presence before performance. Prayer before platform.
• The Four A’s of Empathy help in any conversation. Ask. Attune. Acknowledge significance. Affirm strengths.
• Receiving empathy enlarges capacity for compassion at home and work.
• Empathy transforms hard transitions. It dignifies layoffs, fuels grief work, and softens the ground for forgiveness.
• Leaders need safe people and slow practices that rebuild attachment to God and others.

• 00:00 Welcome and name pronunciation fun
• 01:38 What is Soul Shepherding and the easy yoke of Jesus
• 04:10 Release day for Deeply Loved and why empathy matters
• 04:43 Empathy deserts and early stories that shape leaders
• 07:45 Why Christian leaders struggle to receive love
• 11:06 Empathy is oxygen for the soul
• 14:48 “Is empathy soft?” Gender, strength, and honesty
• 20:38 Attachment, secure bonds, and practical tools
• 26:30 Theology plus psychology in Deeply Loved
• 27:03 The Four A’s of Empathy explained
• 38:22 Empathy in layoffs, burnout, and hard meetings
• 43:53 Where to find the book and Soul Shepherding retreats
• 45:08 Close and gratitude

Explore More Resources:

Dive deeper into the themes of this episode by visiting soulshepherding.org/deeplylovedbook for Bill and Kristi Gaultier’s Deeply Loved, and find confidential guidance and support for ministry transitions at ministrytransitions.com.

Sixty episodes. More than 70,000 downloads. And countless stories of leaders who’ve walked through suffering, loss, and transition - and discovered God’s faithfulness in the middle of it all.

In this season finale, Matt Davis pauses to look back on the lessons of Season Four.

From transformational suffering to leadership in crisis, from the wilderness of interruption to the challenge of succession planning, these conversations have pointed us toward what truly sustains ministry.

More than just a recap, this is an invitation. An invitation to reflect on what God may be stirring in your own life and to consider how you might come alongside leaders who are navigating the hardest moments of ministry.

• Every testimony is more than a story - it’s a prayer for God to do it again.
• Suffering, when surrendered, can become transformational.
• Presence matters more than polish in crisis leadership.
• Succession is both organizational and personal - it requires planning on both levels.
• The Church’s culture is an operating system, not an event.
• Leaders in transition need more than strategy - they need support.
• You can be part of multiplying hope for leaders facing transition.

• 00:00 – Introduction: Season 4 Wrap-Up
• 01:00 – Why Testimonies Are Prayers for God to Do It Again
• 03:15 – Lessons from Guests: Suffering, Succession, Wilderness, and Culture
• 09:00 – Succession as Both Organizational and Personal
• 12:00 – Supporting Leaders in Transition: An Appeal
• 15:00 – Thank You and Looking Ahead to Season 5

Ministry Transitions stands in the gap for pastors and ministry leaders who’ve been let go, burned out, or are simply facing their next step - and they need your help.

Visit ministrytransitions.com to:

• Access resources
• Sponsor a leader in crisis
• Or schedule a conversation to take stock of your next step

You’re not giving to a program - you’re giving to a person with a calling. Let’s walk with leaders through their lowest valleys and help them find hope again.