What do scuba diving, salary spreadsheets, and severance packages have in common? According to David Fletcher - everything.

In this episode, Matt sits down with the founder of xPastor and longtime executive pastor, David Fletcher, to talk about the messy, complicated, and deeply human work of leadership transitions in the church.

They unpack the real cost of bad transitions - not just in dollars, but in broken trust.

Dave shares stories from his 30+ years in ministry, including firing people he loved, navigating church politics without losing his soul, and why a generous severance might be the best culture-shaping tool a church has.

You'll also hear how he and his wife built a thriving marriage in the middle of ministry chaos, and why their daily Starbucks date is sacred.

It's honest. It's wise. It’s surprisingly funny. And it’s a masterclass for anyone leading people, especially in the church.

• The Business Brain + Pastor’s Heart: Every ministry decision is both relational and organizational. You need both instincts.
• Why Fit Matters More Than Failure: Most terminations aren’t about incompetence - they’re about misalignment.
• The $300,000 Mistake: Dave breaks down the actual financial cost of a poor staff transition.
• Tell the Truth Without Telling Everything: How to communicate firings to staff and congregation without gossip or spin.
• Marriage and Ministry: Why laughing, insider jokes, and iced tea matter more than most leadership books.
• Give It Away: Why Dave gives away nearly everything on XPastor.org - and what it’s doing for churches worldwide.

• 00:00 – Intro & How Greek (Yes, Greek) Led Dave into Ministry
• 02:30 – The Wild Ride from Kids Ministry to XP
• 04:45 – Why the Executive Pastor Role Is All-In
• 06:30 – Letting People Go with Dignity
• 08:15 – Calculating the Real Cost of Bad Transitions
• 12:45 – How to Communicate a Termination (Without Creating a Firestorm)
• 15:30 – What’s Changed in the Church (Spoiler: Everything)
• 18:00 – Should Every Pastor Be Bivocational Now?
• 22:00 – Health, Marriage, and the Art of Insider Jokes
• 26:00 – Behind the Madness of the XPastor Seminar
• 28:45 – Fair Salaries and Why They Matter
• 32:00 – The Goal: Fully Enjoy God

If you’re navigating a leadership transition or just want to do ministry with more clarity, courage, and peace - check out the free resources at ministrytransitions.com. And for coaching, salary tools, or to attend the next XPastor Seminar, visit xpastor.org. It’s the guide you wish you had years ago.

What if the scariest thing about leaving ministry wasn’t the loss of your job - but the loss of your identity?

In this episode, Matt sits down with Josh Taylor, former executive pastor turned chief marketing officer, who opens up about what it’s really like to step off the platform and into the unknown.

From twelve years of trusted leadership in a growing church to a surprising turn through a university layoff and a marketing agency for car washes, Josh’s story is full of quiet pivots, faithful risk-taking, and unexpected grace.

But this isn’t just about changing careers. It’s about the slow death of pride, learning to hear God's voice outside the church walls, and becoming the kind of husband, father, and friend you were always meant to be.

If you’ve ever wondered what ministry looks like when your title disappears - or felt a holy nudge toward “something more” - this conversation will meet you right where you are.

• Why identity is one of the hardest things to untangle when leaving ministry
• How Josh navigated an unexpected layoff - and why it turned into one of the best days of his life
• What it looks like to still live out ministry in a secular workplace
• How to listen well, talk honestly with your spouse, and step into an unknown future with trust
• The surprising truth about being a present dad (and why the phone isn’t the only distraction)

00:00 – Josh's journey into ministry and long tenure as executive pastor 04:30 – Lessons from staffing, transitions, and team dynamics 07:25 – When boredom, burnout, and frustration signal it’s time to go 12:00 – Why Josh and his wife stepped away from their home church after resigning 17:00 – A safe landing at a university… and an unexpected layoff 19:30 – The power of a spouse’s words during a pivotal moment 22:50 – From pastor to car wash CMO: how to make sense of an unexpected calling 28:00 – How Josh stays present as a father and what he wants his son to remember 31:00 – Advice for leaders who feel called to step out but don’t know where to start

If you’re wrestling with what’s next after ministry, you don’t have to figure it out alone. Visit MinistryTransitions.com to find practical support and a team who’s walked this road too.

And be sure to follow Josh Taylor on Instagram at @joshtaylor.guide for thoughtful reflections on leadership, fatherhood, and life after ministry.

Alicia Lee didn’t leave ministry. She left Wall Street.

After nearly two decades at Goldman Sachs, Alicia was managing a massive trading floor and rubbing shoulders with IPO titans. She loved the fast pace. She was good at it.

And then God pulled the plug. A missed promotion became a divine pivot - and what followed was not a sabbatical, but a startup.

In this episode, we dive deep into Alicia’s unlikely journey from investment banking to launching Faithly, a digital ecosystem for ministry leaders - built not to replace community, but to amplify it.

She opens up about her hustle, her heartbreak, and her unshakeable sense of calling.

If you’ve ever wrestled with identity in a transition, if you’ve ever been tempted to white-knuckle your way to the next thing, or if you’re still unsure what ministry looks like outside the walls of the church - this conversation will hit home.

Alicia’s story isn’t just about leaving a job. It’s about finding your voice when your title disappears.

• God uses closed doors as clear signs to redirect us into new assignments.
• Your calling may not change - but your context can. You might already be “in ministry” and not even know it.
• Faithly is filling a gap for pastors and ministry leaders left out of traditional professional networks like LinkedIn.
• Slow growth is still real growth. There’s value in patient building and prioritizing soul care over speed.
• Transitions can tempt us to over-identify with productivity, but our identity is not in what we do - it’s in whose we are.

• 00:00 – From Wall Street to the ministry: Alicia’s surprising career shift
• 03:30 – The promotion that didn’t come - and what God did instead
• 06:45 – The vision behind Faithly: Why ministry leaders need their own platform
• 09:50 – Why LinkedIn doesn’t work for ministry - and what makes Faithly different
• 14:40 – Bringing Wall Street hustle into the startup world
• 17:00 – Juggling a tech startup and raising three kids
• 21:00 – Redefining identity after leaving a high-powered career
• 24:45 – Building slowly: Why Faithly is growing at the speed of trust
• 30:00 – What’s next for Faithly and how ministry leaders can get involved

If you’re a ministry leader in transition, don’t navigate it alone. Visit ministrytransitions.com for guidance, coaching, and care to help you land well.

And if you're ready to connect with others who get it - people who are walking the same road - join the growing network at faithly.co. It’s not just a platform. It’s your new ministry ecosystem.

What do you do when ministry success comes at the cost of your soul?

In this episode, we sit down with Jon Talbert - pastor, coach, and co-founder of Forte - to talk about the quiet unraveling that often happens behind the scenes in leadership.

Jon has led at the highest levels of church and nonprofit work, but somewhere along the way, he realized he was losing himself in the process. What followed wasn’t a dramatic exit - but a deliberate shift. A reckoning. A redefinition of calling.

If you’ve ever questioned your role, your rhythm, or even your relevance in ministry, this conversation will hit close to home.

Jon gets honest about burnout, identity, and why courage sometimes looks like letting go.

This isn’t just about recovering from ministry. It’s about discovering what’s next - with less fear and more freedom.

• What most leaders miss about the difference between calling and identity
• Why burnout isn’t always loud - and how to recognize it early
• The real cost of avoiding your own growth
• How to lead with clarity when the crowd is gone
• What “editing your life” looks like in a post-ministry season

00:00 – Jon’s early ministry story 06:12 – From platform to pressure: the silent drift 14:45 – Burnout and the addiction to being needed 21:08 – Risk, honesty, and what it really means to lead well 29:17 – How Forte walks with leaders in transition 36:30 – Wrestling with faith after leaving ministry 41:40 – Final thoughts: courage over comfort

If you’re facing a leadership shift, you don’t have to do it alone. Start a conversation at ministrytransitions.com.

Follow Jon Talbert on LinkedIn

Learn more about his work at getforte.com

And explore their support for faith leaders at getforte.com/faith

Bill Simmons thought he was in control - until a child soldier in the Congo held him at gunpoint. In that moment, as the AK-47 clicked into place, Bill realized the terrifying truth: control was an illusion.

Years later, as the CEO of a global nonprofit, he faced a different kind of pressure - leading an organization, carrying the weight of a mission, and pushing through exhaustion.

But this time, the gun wasn’t in someone else’s hands. It was the slow, creeping pressure of burnout, and it was just as dangerous.

In this episode, Bill shares how he went from being a leader on the brink to discovering the power of interruption.

He unpacks why so many pastors and ministry leaders are running on empty, why stepping away feels impossible, and how his sabbatical at a silent monastery changed everything.

Burnout isn’t a badge of honor - it’s a warning sign. If you feel the weight of ministry pressing down on you, this conversation is your lifeline.

• Burnout doesn’t happen overnight. It’s a slow fade, and most leaders don’t see it coming until they’re in crisis.
• Control is an illusion. Whether it’s holding onto leadership or refusing to step away, the tighter your grip, the heavier the burden.
• Interruption is a choice - disruption is a consequence. If you don’t make space for rest, your body, mind, or ministry will force the issue.
• A sabbatical isn’t selfish - it’s survival. Leaders who take time to step away don’t weaken their ministries - they strengthen them.
• The church must do better. If you're a board member or elder, don’t wait for your pastor to break - give them space to breathe.

• [00:10] - Welcome & Bill Simmons’ Story: From Missionary Kid to CEO
• [03:14] - Held at Gunpoint - What a Child Soldier Taught Me About Control
• [06:25] - The Burnout Epidemic: Why 8.5/10 Leaders Are Near Collapse
• [09:55] - The Moment Everything Broke - And Why Bill Took a Sabbatical
• [14:44] - Shabbat, Ceasing, & The Myth of Rest
• [19:09] - The Power of Pause, Psalm, and Prayer
• [24:59] - Leaders Don’t Have to Manufacture Spiritual Life - Just Make Space
• [28:41] - Interruption vs. Disruption: What Happens When You Ignore the Signs
• [32:11] - How to Sabbath Without Making It Just Another Task
• [36:46] - The Way of Interruption - Bill’s Book & Why It Matters

The weight of leadership isn’t yours to carry alone.

• Read Bill Simmons’ book, The Way of Interruption, and learn how to embrace spiritual pause before burnout takes over. Order your copy now: Get the book here
• Need help navigating a transition? Whether you're stepping away from ministry or trying to find a healthier rhythm, Pastoral Transitions can help. Visit pastoraltransitions.com to start the conversation.

Matthew had been hiding a secret for years. A secret that was growing, festering, and slowly creating a wedge in his marriage.

He was a pastor. A leader. A man who thought he had it under control - until he didn’t. Until Joanna asked him the one question he had spent years avoiding.

In that moment, everything unraveled. Their marriage. Their ministry. The future they had planned.

What do you do when the thing you're struggling with is the very thing you’re called to help others with? When the shame is suffocating, and the voices in your head tell you you're disqualified?

In this episode, Matthew and Joanna Raabsmith open up about betrayal, confession, and the long road to healing. They reveal how their journey nearly cost them everything - and how, through the wreckage, they found a new calling.

If you’re a pastor, a ministry leader, or just someone feeling like you've lost your way, this episode is for you.

• Secrets don’t stay buried. What you hide will always rise to the surface - usually when you least expect it.
• Your struggle doesn’t disqualify you. But ignoring it might.
• Healing is possible - but only if you face the truth. Matthew’s addiction nearly destroyed his marriage, but confession opened the door to redemption.
• Ministry should not cost you your soul. Leaders are burning out, hiding struggles, and suffering in silence. It’s time for a better way.

[00:10] - Introducing Matthew & Joanna Raabsmith [01:15] - Falling in Love & Stepping into Ministry [02:08] - The Secret That Changed Everything [07:18] - The Moment of Truth: When Joanna Asked the Hard Question [09:15] - Can You Still Be in Ministry After Failing? [14:51] - Pastors in Crisis: Why Leaders Feel Stuck [18:30] - The Weight of Hidden Struggles & The Road to Freedom [21:27] - Creating a Culture Where Leaders Can Heal [26:08] - What Churches Get Wrong About Redemption [29:08] - Finding New Purpose After Ministry

If you or someone you know is struggling in ministry, you are not alone. There is a way forward. There is life after ministry.

Get resources and connect with Matthew & Joanna at https://raabsmithteam.com/free

Connect with us at https://pastoraltransitions.com/

Share this episode. Someone needs to hear it.

What do you do when life shatters around you?

When everything you built - your family, your future, your faith - feels like it’s slipping through your fingers?

Bryan Elliott knows suffering intimately.

A tragic accident left his brother in a vegetative state.

Addiction nearly destroyed his daughters.

A brutal murder stole one of them forever.

His businesses collapsed.

His marriages unraveled.

His world should have crushed him.

But it didn’t.

Instead, Bryan woke up the morning after his daughter's murder with something that made no sense: peace.

Not numbness.

Not denial.

Actual, undeniable peace.

And then, something even crazier - joy.

How?

This episode of Life After Ministry goes deep into the mystery of suffering, not as something to survive, but as something that transforms.

Bryan doesn’t just talk about enduring pain - he talks about what it means to co-suffer with Christ, to find God in the darkest pit, and to come out on the other side more alive than ever.

If you’ve ever walked through a season where God felt absent - where the wilderness stretched on too long and the heartbreak felt too heavy - this is the episode you need to hear.

Because maybe, just maybe, your suffering isn’t the end of the story. Maybe it’s the beginning of something bigger than you ever expected.

• Why suffering is not just something to endure, but something God uses to transform us.
• The kingdom principle of co-suffering with Christ and how it leads to co-glorification.
• How to recognize God’s presence in the darkest seasons, even when He feels silent.
• Why suffering is an accelerant in spiritual growth and how it prepares us for what’s next.
• The role of grief, loss, and pain in shaping our faith and revealing God’s goodness.
• How Bryan’s story of unimaginable suffering led to an unshakable trust in God’s sovereignty.

00:10 | Welcome & Bryan’s background 01:15 | A tragic accident that unraveled his family 07:31 | When life keeps taking - divorce, addiction, business collapse 16:23 | The moment Bryan’s daughter was murdered 17:06 | Waking up with peace - and why it didn’t make sense 20:54 | Why suffering is an accelerant, not an obstacle 26:22 | What we’re missing about suffering as believers 33:42 | Encouragement for those walking through suffering 40:51 | How to move forward and trust God in the process

If you’re walking through a season of suffering, you don’t have to navigate it alone.

We’re giving away 14 copies of Bryan’s book, As In Heaven, for free. Be one of the first 14 people to email talk@pastoraltransitions.com, and we’ll send you a copy.

Want more resources on navigating life after ministry? Visit PastoralTransitions.com for guides, support, and practical help to walk through this season with clarity and hope.

To dive deeper into Bryan's ministry and find more resources on healing, restoration, and kingdom living, visit M46Ministries.com.

This is one of the most raw, gut-honest conversations we’ve ever had. Listen now, and let it reshape how you see suffering.

The church is supposed to be a place of healing. But what happens when it’s the source of the hurt?

Too often, we hear stories of toxic leadership, forced terminations, and broken congregations. And yet, no one wants to talk about it - not in the pulpit, not in the pews. The result? Wounds that never heal, pastors who burn out, and churches stuck in cycles of dysfunction.

In this episode, we sit down with Kayleigh Clark from Restor(y)to talk about church trauma, spiritual abuse, and the path toward real healing. This isn’t just theory - it’s real-life ministry, where pain meets restoration.

✅ Church trauma is real - and it doesn’t just affect congregants. Pastors are hurting, too. ✅ Healing must happen inside the church - we can’t keep looking for solutions outside the body of Christ. ✅ Difficult transitions leave lasting scars - but identifying past wounds is the first step to moving forward. ✅ God’s solution? Shepherds who care for the flock - not just institutions, but people who lead with compassion.

⏳ [00:00] – Why church trauma isn’t just an individual issue ⏳ [04:30] – The hidden cost of toxic congregations and forced terminations ⏳ [10:15] – Why “revitalization” often fails when trauma is ignored ⏳ [15:40] – What it means to be a trauma-informed pastor ⏳ [24:00] – How Restor(y) is helping churches rewrite their narratives ⏳ [30:10] – Practical steps toward healing, for both pastors and congregations

If church hurt has left you wounded, you’re not alone. Whether you’re a pastor in transition, a church leader navigating dysfunction, or a congregation longing for restoration, there is hope.

🔹 Learn more about Restor(y)’s work at restorycenter.com 🔹 If you need a safe space to talk, we’re here. Visit pastoraltransitions.com to start the conversation. 🔹 If you believe in this work, consider donating to help pastors in crisis find healing.

The church can be whole again. But it starts with facing the wounds. Let’s walk that road together.