What do scuba diving, salary spreadsheets, and severance packages have in common? According to David Fletcher - everything.

In this episode, Matt sits down with the founder of xPastor and longtime executive pastor, David Fletcher, to talk about the messy, complicated, and deeply human work of leadership transitions in the church.

They unpack the real cost of bad transitions - not just in dollars, but in broken trust.

Dave shares stories from his 30+ years in ministry, including firing people he loved, navigating church politics without losing his soul, and why a generous severance might be the best culture-shaping tool a church has.

You'll also hear how he and his wife built a thriving marriage in the middle of ministry chaos, and why their daily Starbucks date is sacred.

It's honest. It's wise. It’s surprisingly funny. And it’s a masterclass for anyone leading people, especially in the church.

• The Business Brain + Pastor’s Heart: Every ministry decision is both relational and organizational. You need both instincts.
• Why Fit Matters More Than Failure: Most terminations aren’t about incompetence - they’re about misalignment.
• The $300,000 Mistake: Dave breaks down the actual financial cost of a poor staff transition.
• Tell the Truth Without Telling Everything: How to communicate firings to staff and congregation without gossip or spin.
• Marriage and Ministry: Why laughing, insider jokes, and iced tea matter more than most leadership books.
• Give It Away: Why Dave gives away nearly everything on XPastor.org - and what it’s doing for churches worldwide.

• 00:00 – Intro & How Greek (Yes, Greek) Led Dave into Ministry
• 02:30 – The Wild Ride from Kids Ministry to XP
• 04:45 – Why the Executive Pastor Role Is All-In
• 06:30 – Letting People Go with Dignity
• 08:15 – Calculating the Real Cost of Bad Transitions
• 12:45 – How to Communicate a Termination (Without Creating a Firestorm)
• 15:30 – What’s Changed in the Church (Spoiler: Everything)
• 18:00 – Should Every Pastor Be Bivocational Now?
• 22:00 – Health, Marriage, and the Art of Insider Jokes
• 26:00 – Behind the Madness of the XPastor Seminar
• 28:45 – Fair Salaries and Why They Matter
• 32:00 – The Goal: Fully Enjoy God

If you’re navigating a leadership transition or just want to do ministry with more clarity, courage, and peace - check out the free resources at ministrytransitions.com. And for coaching, salary tools, or to attend the next XPastor Seminar, visit xpastor.org. It’s the guide you wish you had years ago.

What if the scariest thing about leaving ministry wasn’t the loss of your job - but the loss of your identity?

In this episode, Matt sits down with Josh Taylor, former executive pastor turned chief marketing officer, who opens up about what it’s really like to step off the platform and into the unknown.

From twelve years of trusted leadership in a growing church to a surprising turn through a university layoff and a marketing agency for car washes, Josh’s story is full of quiet pivots, faithful risk-taking, and unexpected grace.

But this isn’t just about changing careers. It’s about the slow death of pride, learning to hear God's voice outside the church walls, and becoming the kind of husband, father, and friend you were always meant to be.

If you’ve ever wondered what ministry looks like when your title disappears - or felt a holy nudge toward “something more” - this conversation will meet you right where you are.

• Why identity is one of the hardest things to untangle when leaving ministry
• How Josh navigated an unexpected layoff - and why it turned into one of the best days of his life
• What it looks like to still live out ministry in a secular workplace
• How to listen well, talk honestly with your spouse, and step into an unknown future with trust
• The surprising truth about being a present dad (and why the phone isn’t the only distraction)

00:00 – Josh's journey into ministry and long tenure as executive pastor 04:30 – Lessons from staffing, transitions, and team dynamics 07:25 – When boredom, burnout, and frustration signal it’s time to go 12:00 – Why Josh and his wife stepped away from their home church after resigning 17:00 – A safe landing at a university… and an unexpected layoff 19:30 – The power of a spouse’s words during a pivotal moment 22:50 – From pastor to car wash CMO: how to make sense of an unexpected calling 28:00 – How Josh stays present as a father and what he wants his son to remember 31:00 – Advice for leaders who feel called to step out but don’t know where to start

If you’re wrestling with what’s next after ministry, you don’t have to figure it out alone. Visit MinistryTransitions.com to find practical support and a team who’s walked this road too.

And be sure to follow Josh Taylor on Instagram at @joshtaylor.guide for thoughtful reflections on leadership, fatherhood, and life after ministry.

Alicia Lee didn’t leave ministry. She left Wall Street.

After nearly two decades at Goldman Sachs, Alicia was managing a massive trading floor and rubbing shoulders with IPO titans. She loved the fast pace. She was good at it.

And then God pulled the plug. A missed promotion became a divine pivot - and what followed was not a sabbatical, but a startup.

In this episode, we dive deep into Alicia’s unlikely journey from investment banking to launching Faithly, a digital ecosystem for ministry leaders - built not to replace community, but to amplify it.

She opens up about her hustle, her heartbreak, and her unshakeable sense of calling.

If you’ve ever wrestled with identity in a transition, if you’ve ever been tempted to white-knuckle your way to the next thing, or if you’re still unsure what ministry looks like outside the walls of the church - this conversation will hit home.

Alicia’s story isn’t just about leaving a job. It’s about finding your voice when your title disappears.

• God uses closed doors as clear signs to redirect us into new assignments.
• Your calling may not change - but your context can. You might already be “in ministry” and not even know it.
• Faithly is filling a gap for pastors and ministry leaders left out of traditional professional networks like LinkedIn.
• Slow growth is still real growth. There’s value in patient building and prioritizing soul care over speed.
• Transitions can tempt us to over-identify with productivity, but our identity is not in what we do - it’s in whose we are.

• 00:00 – From Wall Street to the ministry: Alicia’s surprising career shift
• 03:30 – The promotion that didn’t come - and what God did instead
• 06:45 – The vision behind Faithly: Why ministry leaders need their own platform
• 09:50 – Why LinkedIn doesn’t work for ministry - and what makes Faithly different
• 14:40 – Bringing Wall Street hustle into the startup world
• 17:00 – Juggling a tech startup and raising three kids
• 21:00 – Redefining identity after leaving a high-powered career
• 24:45 – Building slowly: Why Faithly is growing at the speed of trust
• 30:00 – What’s next for Faithly and how ministry leaders can get involved

If you’re a ministry leader in transition, don’t navigate it alone. Visit ministrytransitions.com for guidance, coaching, and care to help you land well.

And if you're ready to connect with others who get it - people who are walking the same road - join the growing network at faithly.co. It’s not just a platform. It’s your new ministry ecosystem.