EPISODE DESCRIPTION

What if the conflict in your church isn’t really about a person—but about the system everyone is part of? In this episode, Pat Bills and leadership coach Jon Mullican explore how anxiety moves through church systems, why certain patterns keep repeating, and what it takes for leaders to respond with clarity instead of reactivity. Jon draws from family systems theory to explain why removing a “problem person” rarely solves the deeper issue, how calm and connected leadership can shift the emotional climate, and why honest self-reflection is the starting point for healthier congregational life. A grounded, practical conversation for church leaders navigating tension, transition, or big decisions.

GUEST BIO

Jon is passionate about enhancing relationships within the church by facilitating authentic, open dialogue. He has a gift for discernment and listening in a way that allows people to be heard and understood, and provides opportunities for deep connection with God and with others. Jon has served two congregations as Executive Minister, one in Tulsa and one in Dallas. He coaches church leaders using the Enneagram and other assessments to support their personal growth and self-awareness. Jon earned a Bachelor of Science degree in chemistry from United States Naval Academy in 1985 and a Master of Science degree in Organization Development from Pepperdine University in 2005. In his free time, Jon enjoys spending time with his family, taking his wife out on dates, and making furniture from wood in his garage, when time permits. Jon and Dana have three grown children and two grandchildren.

Jon Recommends:

Books

• The Listening Life: Embracing Attentiveness in a World of Distraction by Adam McHugh
• Listening: Hearing the Heart by Robin Daniels

Movie

• The Tree of Life