Why do good people do bad things at work? And how can an organisation slowly normalise behaviour that, from the outside, seems obviously wrong?

Professor Guido Palazzo, Professor of Business Ethics at the University of Lausanne and co-author of The Dark Pattern: The Hidden Dynamics of Corporate Scandals, joins Sarah for a fascinating exploration of ethical blindness, corporate culture and the hidden forces that shape the decisions we make.

Drawing on decades of research into business ethics, human rights, organised crime and corporate misconduct, Guido challenges the comforting assumption that major scandals are simply caused by a handful of bad people. More often, he argues, ordinary people find themselves operating inside systems where pressure, incentives, group behaviour and distorted language gradually change their perception of what is acceptable.

Sarah and Guido explore some of the most striking corporate scandals of recent decades, including Wells Fargo, Enron, Uber and Theranos, alongside the doping culture surrounding professional cycling. Guido explains how toxic routines become normalised, why groups can develop a dangerous “us against them” mentality, and how people can become ethically blind while still believing they are acting in the interests of their organisation.

They also examine the extraordinary power of language. From “creative accounting” and corporate euphemisms to the aggressive language of disruption, warfare and world-changing missions, Guido explains how the words leaders use can reshape reality, weaken ethical boundaries and make behaviour that once seemed unacceptable feel entirely justifiable.

But this conversation is also about what leaders can do differently.

Guido explores why speaking up requires far more than a whistleblowing hotline or a poster telling employees to use their voice. Sarah and Guido discuss psychological safety, retaliation, the importance of protecting and celebrating what Guido calls “moral rebels”, and why the stories circulating inside an organisation may reveal far more about its true culture than its published values ever will.

They also discuss the importance of knowing your own ethical red lines, why having a “Plan B” can give leaders the freedom to resist pressure, and why even the most powerful executives need people around them who are willing to challenge them.

Guido shares his own reflections on difficult decisions, the importance of listening as power increases, and why leaders should regularly ask themselves not simply what they can do, but what they are unwilling to compromise.

Finally, Guido builds his three-item leadership survival toolkit through three books exploring the darker and brighter sides of human behaviour: Hannah Arendt’s Eichmann in Jerusalem, Philip Zimbardo’s The Lucifer Effect and Eyal Press’s Beautiful Souls.

A compelling conversation about courage, conformity, corporate culture and the uncomfortable truth that the line between ethical and unethical behaviour may be far thinner than we like to believe.

Find out more about Guido and The Dark Pattern:

https://www.hachettebookgroup.com/titles/guido-palazzo-ph-d/the-dark-pattern/9781541705326/?lens=publicaffairs

Guido's Book Suggestions:

The Lucifer Effect - https://amzn.eu/d/0crgl0WW

Beautiful Souls - https://amzn.eu/d/032lfgAv

Eichmann in Jerusalem - https://amzn.eu/d/02nriiB2

Want to elevate your leadership beyond the boardroom?

Join the conversation. Connect with me for coaching, peer support, or leadership insights that drive real impact.

📩 Let's talk: https://www.coleforums.com/

🔗 Follow me on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sarah-cole4/

☕Buy me a coffee: buymeacoffee.com/sarah.cole

Former OECD Director for Legal Affairs Nicola Bonucci joins Sarah for a timely and deeply insightful conversation about the future of global anti-corruption efforts, ethical leadership, and the growing uncertainty facing international governance.

Having spent 25 years at the OECD, Nicola played a central role in shaping the OECD Anti-Bribery Convention and witnessed first-hand the transformation of global compliance frameworks during the rise of globalisation. In this episode, he reflects on the geopolitical optimism of the 1990s, the evolution of anti-corruption enforcement, and why he believes negotiating landmark international agreements like the OECD Anti-Bribery Convention would be far more difficult in today’s political climate.

Nicola also shares his concerns about the recent pause in FCPA enforcement in the United States, explaining why the implications stretch far beyond one piece of legislation. Together, Sarah and Nicola explore whether global anti-corruption momentum is now at risk, what this means for companies operating internationally, and why businesses may need to anchor themselves more firmly in values-based leadership rather than relying solely on legislation.

The conversation moves beyond policy into leadership itself. Nicola reflects candidly on the realities of implementing anti-corruption programmes inside organisations, the moral grey areas leaders sometimes face, and why humility, flexibility and judgement are essential qualities for anyone navigating complex ethical decisions.

Want to elevate your leadership beyond the boardroom?

Join the conversation. Connect with me for coaching, peer support, or leadership insights that drive real impact.

📩 Let's talk: https://www.coleforums.com/

🔗 Follow me on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sarah-cole4/

☕Buy me a coffee: buymeacoffee.com/sarah.cole

Tom Fox, widely known as “The Voice of Compliance”, joins Sarah for a fascinating conversation about leadership, resilience, storytelling and the future of ethics and compliance in an AI-driven world.

Founder of the award-winning Compliance Podcast Network, Tom has spent more than a decade helping reshape how organisations think about compliance, business ethics and risk management. Alongside hosting more than 50 podcasts and writing 28 books, he has become one of the most influential voices in the global compliance space.

In this engaging and often very personal conversation, Tom reflects on the unexpected twists that shaped his career. From a life-changing cycling accident that forced him to rethink his future, to becoming an early adopter of blogging, podcasting and social media long before most professionals embraced them, Tom shares how curiosity and adaptability became central to his success.

Together, Sarah and Tom explore:

• Why storytelling is one of the most powerful tools in leadership and compliance

• How podcasting creates deeper emotional connection and engagement

• The future of AI and how it could completely transform compliance education and risk management

• Why compliance professionals must evolve from “the department of no” into strategic business partners

• The importance of resilience, reinvention and earning trust every single day

• How ethics and compliance can become a true business enabler rather than a tick-box exercise

Tom also shares some remarkable stories from his podcasting journey, including how an episode about branding lessons from Count Dracula unexpectedly became his most successful podcast ever, and why a heartfelt story about a local cookie baker resonated with listeners around the world.

This episode is insightful, entertaining and full of practical wisdom for leaders navigating change, innovation and uncertainty. At its heart, it is a conversation about staying curious, embracing new ideas and using communication to genuinely move people.

Explore Tom Fox’s work and podcasts:

Compliance Podcast Network

Read Tom’s daily compliance insights:

FCPA Compliance and Ethics Blog

Want to elevate your leadership beyond the boardroom?

Join the conversation. Connect with me for coaching, peer support, or leadership insights that drive real impact.

📩 Let's talk: https://www.coleforums.com/

🔗 Follow me on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sarah-cole4/

☕Buy me a coffee: buymeacoffee.com/sarah.cole