Trey Sellers runs the numbers on retiring early, and then he runs them again with Bitcoin in the portfolio. The FIRE movement says save hard, buy the index, and you can walk away from work decades sooner than anyone told you. Trey came up through fifteen years in banking and capital markets, spent five years at Unchained, and now leads the private client business at Strike. He has been a Bitcoiner since 2014.

I sold every building I owned to buy Bitcoin, so I came at this from real estate rather than index funds. Trey came at it from spreadsheets and a libertarian streak that started with Ron Paul in 2008. We ended up in the same place by completely different roads.

If the stock market returns ten percent a year and that supports a four percent withdrawal rate, what withdrawal rate does Bitcoin support?

HOW MUCH BITCOIN DO YOU NEED BEFORE YOU CAN STOP WORKING? Trey takes one person from twenty years old to eighty, and answers the question at every stage: what to do first, when to stop pushing, how to start spending again, and how to pass it on without losing it.

He explains:

- Why a 25 percent compound annual growth rate justifies an 8 percent withdrawal rate, and how to blend that across a portfolio that is not all Bitcoin

- The stack sprint: go as hard as you can for four or five years, then coast, because the habits you build saving are the habits that stop you spending later

- Why he is avoiding the ETF unless he has no other option, and what he looks for in a place to buy instead

- Why he thinks a young saver should not hold an emergency fund at all, and what the counterfactual actually costs

- Why he would never own his home without a mortgage on it, even at today's rates

Views expressed by the host & guest(s) are their own and are shared for general informational purposes only. Nothing here should be treated as medical, legal, or financial advice. This is Financial Entertainment.

0:00 Heart of a bull, mind of a strategist

2:57 The golf article that started a tournament

4:27 A libertarian finds libertarian money

9:02 Shaving gold coins, and the Cantillon effect

12:49 Why the money supply must forever grow

16:14 Inflation is a vector, and your basket is yours

21:13 What FIRE actually is

23:13 The 4 percent rule and 25x your expenses

31:20 Bitcoin adjusted: 25 percent CAGR, 8 percent withdrawal

33:31 The Compass, and why nothing leaves your browser

43:21 The trucker convoy, and losing access to your own money

49:19 Twenty years old: the stack sprint

55:19 Forty years old: ETF or self custody?

57:58 Sixty years old: learning how to spend it again

1:01:45 Eighty years old: inheritance after the Coldcard drain

1:07:46 Does an emergency fund cost more than it saves?

1:12:25 The best fiat tool you have is a mortgage

1:19:21 Strike Private, and what a conversation gets you

Follow Trey:

X: https://x.com/ts_hodl

FIRE BTC: https://firebtc.io

The Compass: https://calc.firebtc.io

Strike: https://strike.me

Follow Host:

X: https://x.com/benschmidtbtc

Leon Wankum wrote one of the first financial economics theses on Bitcoin, in 2015, and he got there through Austrian economics, not a chart. He develops, finances and manages real estate in Germany, and builds Bitcoin strategies for other developers and investors. His book Digital Real Estate is published by Bitcoin Magazine and launches in New York this week.

Real estate has been the world's savings account since 1971, and Leon's argument is that it was never designed for the job. A house is shelter that got handed a second career storing value, which is why it costs what it costs. His own business is the proof: find people with capital, develop the property, manage it, collect the rent. After years of doing exactly that he concluded he was never really in the shelter business at all.

LEON BREAKS DOWN THE DIGITAL REAL ESTATE THESIS

He explains:

- Why he is not in the business of providing shelter, and what he thinks he actually sells

- How a 2015 thesis and a philosophy degree got him into Bitcoin before it was a trade

- Why Strike behaves like a rental property when it trades under par, and where that comparison breaks

- What selling his gold, stocks and ETFs into Bitcoin cost him when the cycle turned

Views expressed by the host & guest(s) are their own and are shared for general informational purposes only. Nothing here should be treated as medical, legal, or financial advice. This is Financial Entertainment.

0:00 Sovereign maxis and suitcoiners unite on SLS

1:53 Meet Leon Wankum, and the Bitcoin thesis he wrote in 2015

3:47 What the Austrian school actually is

6:07 Mises in the Vienna cafes, and the economists who got driven out

12:50 Value is subjective, and what water is worth in the desert

15:49 Money is a store of value first

19:55 Going all in, and what it cost him

22:21 Optionality is worth something

27:40 Could a state have out-mined Bitcoin? The 2015 question

32:13 Property, possession, and the easiest way to save

35:13 Croesus, Saylor, and owning land in Manhattan

36:22 Real estate was never meant to be money

39:02 Is Strike digital real estate?

43:21 What a developer has that a Strike holder doesn't

55:00 The book, and the launch party at PubKey

57:42 Digital credit, and where the monetary power actually sits

1:02:28 New York, September 28 and 29

1:06:55 Parker Lewis next week

New York, the same week:

Bitcoin Treasuries Conference, September 28:

https://bitcointreasuries.net/conference

Use code SECOND for 10% off tickets.

Digital Real Estate book launch at PubKey, September 29:

https://luma.com/pubkey-euq1

Follow Leon:

X: https://x.com/leonwankum

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@leonwankum

Newsletter: https://leonwankum.substack.com

Website: https://leonwankum.com

Digital Real Estate: https://store.bitcoinmagazine.com/pages/digital-real-estate-pre-order

Follow Host:

X: https://x.com/benschmidtbtc