Empty beds aren’t free. An unused cabin, an open retreat weekend, or a phone that isn’t ringing represents the capacity your camp built, but isn’t using.

Mark and Carl challenge one of the biggest barriers to camp growth: treating marketing primarily as a cost to control instead of an investment expected to produce a measurable return. The issue isn’t spending more for the sake of spending. It’s learning to test intelligently, track results, invest more in what works, and stop funding what doesn’t.

Mark recommends thinking about marketing investment in relation to the revenue you want to achieve, using 10–12% of target gross revenue as a starting benchmark. They also unpack why fixed budgets can work against growth, why experienced marketing leadership matters, and why most camps need an “air traffic controller” coordinating specialists rather than expecting one marketing employee to do everything.

Carl’s Quick Camp Marketing Tip makes measurement simple: ask every new inquiry, “How did you hear about us?” Record the answer consistently and use those patterns to make better decisions about where your next marketing dollar should go.

Keywords

camp marketing, camp growth, marketing investment, marketing ROI, camp marketing budget, camp enrollment, retreat bookings, lead tracking, camp capacity, marketing strategy, nonprofit growth, camp leadership

Sound Bites

“Empty beds aren’t free.”

“Good leadership doesn’t just protect resources. It puts them to work.”

“Test. Keep track. See what works. See what doesn’t.”

“What are we afraid of?”

Hosts

Mark P. Fisher, Inspiring Growth
Carl Lefever, Improve & Grow

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More than half of a typical camp website’s traffic can come from Google searches, and for some camps, that number reaches 80% or more. That makes one question critical: When parents and retreat planners search for what you offer, can they actually find you?

Senior SEO Specialist Scott Rehnberg of Improve & Grow explains camp SEO without the technical overload. He breaks down how Google understands your website, why dedicated pages for priority audiences matter, how your Google Business Profile affects visibility, and what camps can do to influence recommendations from ChatGPT and other AI search tools.

Scott also shares what progress can look like over 30 days, 90 days, and six months, and why impressions and clicks only matter if they ultimately lead to inquiries, bookings, and registrations.

Carl’s Quick Camp Marketing Tip: “Google Your Camp Like a Guest Would” gives you an immediate visibility check. Open an incognito browser and search your camp’s name, “summer camps near me,” and “Christian retreat centers near me.” Then try similar searches in ChatGPT. Look at who appears, what information search engines are using, and where your camp’s online presence needs work.

Keywords

camp SEO, summer camp marketing, Google search, search engine optimization, ChatGPT search, AI search, Google Business Profile, organic traffic, retreat center marketing, camp registrations, Google Search Console, camp website

Sound Bites

“It's not a trick.” — Scott Rehnberg (19:45)

“If people can understand it, Google's more likely to understand it.” — Scott Rehnberg (20:26)

“Sometimes the off-site things you do can give a lot of credibility to your website.” — Scott Rehnberg (27:22)

“Your SEO is the work you're putting into your house to make it more valuable.” — Scott Rehnberg (46:59)

Hosts

Mark P. Fisher, Inspiring Growth
Carl Lefever, Improve & Grow

Guest

Scott Rehnberg, Improve & Grow

Chapters

00:00 Why SEO Matters for Camps
02:09 Quick Camp Marketing Tip: Google Your Camp Like a Guest Would
15:51 Scott’s Camp Story
19:07 SEO, Explained Simply
24:28 Getting Your Camp Recommended by ChatGPT and AI
30:29 Why Camps Don’t Show Up in Search
35:33 Common SEO Problems for Camp and Retreat Websites
40:19 What Actually Moves the Needle With SEO
46:00 How Long Does SEO Take?
50:10 Measuring Impressions, Clicks, and Conversions
55:32 Three SEO Actions Camps Can Take This Week
57:38 Closing: Building Your Camp’s Growth Plan

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Most camp websites unintentionally make it harder for visitors to take the next step. A homepage has to introduce your ministry, answer questions, and guide visitors in multiple directions. A landing page has one job: help the right visitor take one specific action.

Oscar Quesada, CEO of Lifedge Marketing, explains why focused landing pages consistently outperform general website pages for camp registrations, retreat bookings, and facility rentals. He shares the framework his team uses to build pages that remove confusion, build trust, and improve conversions.

You'll learn what separates a landing page from a standard website page, the biggest mistakes camps make, and the key elements every high-converting page should include, including clear messaging, testimonials, FAQs, pricing, compelling calls to action, and social proof. Oscar also shares a real-world example where a targeted landing page and modest Google Ads campaign generated more than $100,000 in retreat bookings.

Along with the incredible insights from Oscar, Mark encourages camp leaders to price confidently as costs increase while rewarding loyal families with meaningful early-bird incentives. Registering campers before they leave camp, or shortly afterward, can improve retention, strengthen cash flow, and help families commit before they begin comparing other camps. As Mark reminds listeners, "The best time to sell next summer is this summer."

landing pages, camp websites, camp marketing, retreat center marketing, website conversions, Google Ads, Christian camps, camp registration, facility rentals, SEO, website optimization, Lifedge Marketing

"The best time to sell next summer is this summer."

"The right message, to the right audience, at the right time."

"People need to understand what you do in the first 10 seconds."

"Marketing is a bunch of experiments."

Mark P. Fisher, Inspiring Growth

Carl Lefever, Improve & Grow

Oscar Quesada, Lifedge Marketing

• Lifedge Marketing Website >
• Landing Page Best Practices Guide >

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Most camps assume they need more inquiries to grow their guest group business, but many already have enough opportunities—they simply need a better system for converting them. Sustainable growth comes from responding quickly, building trust throughout the sales process, and creating consistent follow-up that helps prospective groups confidently choose your camp.

Carl opens the episode with a practical marketing tip reminding camp leaders that every inquiry has an expiration date. He explains why responding within one business day, following up consistently, scheduling clear next steps, and tracking every opportunity in a CRM dramatically increases the likelihood of turning inquiries into bookings. As Carl says, marketing creates opportunities, but sales turns those opportunities into ministry and revenue.

Mark is joined by Lindy Pinkerton and Heather Trail from Inspiring Growth to discuss how virtual sales support is helping camps strengthen their guest group sales process without adding the cost and complexity of expanding their internal staff. They share practical insights on qualifying leads, building stronger relationships with prospective groups, simplifying contracts, improving communication, and creating systems that ensure every inquiry receives the attention it deserves. Throughout the conversation, they explain how becoming an extension of a camp's team—not simply an outside vendor—helps camps increase bookings, improve rebooking rates, and build sustainable long-term growth through better sales systems.

Keywords

virtual sales, guest group sales, camp CRM, camp marketing, Christian camps, retreat center marketing, follow-up systems, lead conversion, guest group bookings, sales process, HubSpot CRM, camp growth

Sound Bites

"The fortune is in the follow-up."

"We don't use 'they.' We say 'we.' We are your people."

“If you follow up more than the other person and better than the other person you can often win them.”

"Marketing creates opportunities. Sales turns those opportunities into ministry and revenue."

“What camp can do in the life of a child and adult can change a family, can change a generation.”

Hosts

Mark P. Fisher, Inspiring Growth

Carl Lefever, Improve & Grow

Guests

Lindy Pinkerton, Virtual Sales at Inspiring Growth
Heather Trail, Virtual Sales at Inspiring Growth

Resources

Talk with Inspiring Growth About Virtual Sales

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Most camps assume they need more marketing to grow. Mark Fisher argues many actually have a capacity problem hiding in plain sight.

Before diving into the main conversation, Mark shares a practical camp marketing tip: share benefits, not just features. Instead of simply promoting climbing walls, zip lines, or beautiful facilities, camps should tell stories that demonstrate real transformation. Parents and retreat planners don't just want information, they want evidence that camp changes lives. By documenting one authentic story each week, camps can create more compelling marketing that connects emotionally with future guests.

The main conversation introduces Capacity Yield Management, a practical approach to helping camps generate more revenue, serve more guests, and strengthen long-term sustainability by making better use of the facilities they already have. Through real-world examples, Mark and Carl explain why "full" often isn't actually full, how outdated booking practices quietly cost camps thousands of dollars, and why better stewardship of existing resources can unlock significant growth.

You'll learn how to evaluate true capacity, manage reservation holds, determine when exclusive use makes financial sense, balance multiple guest groups, identify hidden facility constraints, and build the operational systems that maximize both ministry impact and financial health.

capacity yield management, camp occupancy, camp revenue, retreat center management, Christian camps, camp marketing, storytelling marketing, guest group bookings, exclusive use, camp operations, camp leadership, camp stewardship

“I've seen camps over and over increase monthly income by 30 % just by maximizing their occupancy.”

“Combine, cancel, create, and cram. The four C's of yield management.”

“Sometimes you have to cancel or prune, in order to have more growth.”

“Maybe curiosity is one of the fastest paths back to joy.”

“People don't just want more information. They want evidence. Evidence through story that your camp is changing lives.”

Mark P. Fisher, Inspiring Growth

Carl Lefever, Improve &Grow

Mark P. Fisher, Inspiring Growth

The Spike of Success, by Mark P. Fisher

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Many camps dream of growing their ministry, but sustainable growth rarely comes from a single campaign or one great season. It happens through consistent leadership, clear messaging, intentional systems, and a willingness to confront the obstacles holding a camp back.

Mark opens the episode with a practical marketing tip on selling the problem before the program, explaining why camps should lead with the challenges their guests already feel, not simply the name or date of an event. When people recognize a problem they're trying to solve, they're far more likely to engage with your camp's solution.

Dave Crouse, Executive Director of Angeles Crest Christian Camp, shares the remarkable story of taking over a camp that couldn't pay its electric bill and transforming it into a thriving ministry serving nearly 7,000 guests each year. Dave discusses the leadership decisions that changed the trajectory of the camp, including clarifying the camp's brand, improving its digital presence, embracing data-driven decision making, and investing consistently in both facilities and people. He also explains how sustained growth strengthened donor confidence, funded major capital improvements, and positioned the camp to pursue even bigger ministry opportunities, including a bold vision to serve 10,000 guests annually.

Throughout the conversation, Dave reminds camp leaders that growth begins by honestly identifying the one or two obstacles preventing your camp from moving forward and intentionally building systems to overcome them.

camp leadership, camp marketing, Christian camps, retreat center marketing, nonprofit marketing, camp growth, branding, digital marketing, donor development, guest group marketing, executive director, stewardship

"My first day on the job, I was told that we were financially in the hole and that we didn't have enough money to pay the electric bill”

"Sell the problem before the program"

"I had to come to that realization what I had in the past was not gonna happen and and lead to growth now."

"When you start to get that consistent growth, a lot of other things come with it."

Mark P. Fisher
https://go.inspiringgrowth.biz/

Carl Lefever
https://improveandgrow.com/industries/camp-marketing/

Dave Crouse
Executive Director, Angeles Crest Christian Camp

Angeles Crest Christian Camp
https://angelescrest.com

The Paine Protocol by Mark P. Fisher

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Word-of-mouth has always been one of the strongest drivers of camp growth, but for many camps, it's still an informal process that's impossible to measure or improve.

Peter Elbaum, owner of Camp Tree and Operations Director at Greystone Camp, shares how camps can turn referrals into a repeatable growth system. Drawing from both his camp leadership experience and software engineering background, Peter explains why great systems free camp staff to focus on relationships instead of repetitive administrative work.

Mark and Carl also discuss why referrals consistently outperform many other marketing channels, how camps can reward families and staff without creating unnecessary complexity, and why measuring referral performance is essential for long-term growth. Peter shares practical examples from more than 100 camps using Camp Tree, including how one camp achieved a 15x return on investment by replacing guesswork with measurable referral tracking.

Keywords

camp referrals, referral marketing, Camp Tree, camper enrollment, staff recruitment, camp growth, word of mouth marketing, CampMinder integration, ambassador programs, camp operations, camp software, summer camp marketing

Sound Bites

"Camp needs to be referable."

“Often at camp, it seems like the default is to work harder and not necessarily smarter."

"You can't manage what you don't measure."

Hosts

Mark P. Fisher, Inspiring Growth

Carl Lefever, Improve & Grow

Guest

Peter Elbaum, Camp Tree

Chapters

00:03 Introduction and Setting the Scene
00:30 The Power of Camp Ministry
01:00 Building Relationships Through Camp Experiences
02:09 Marketing Insights: The Importance of Retargeting
05:43 Introducing Peter Elbaum and Camp Tree
07:49 Peter's Journey: From Camp to Tech
10:33 The Impact of Software Engineering on Camp Operations
12:15 Identifying Challenges in Camp Management
15:59 Acquiring Camp Tree: A New Chapter
18:16 The Value of Camp Tree for Camps
20:46 Referral Programs: What Works?
24:24 Success Stories: Measuring ROI with Camp Tree
26:51 Special Offer and Closing Thoughts

Resources

• Camp Tree — https://camptree.org
• Promo Code: GYC26 for $150 off your first year of Camp Tree
• Camp Operations Newsletter — https://campoperations.com

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Many camps struggle with visibility—not because their programs lack value, but because the right families, churches, and retreat planners never discover them.

Mark opens the episode with a practical camp marketing tip on following up with retreat inquiries that have gone silent, sharing a simple email subject line that can restart conversations and recover lost bookings. Then Carl shares how an unexpected project at Refreshing Mountain Camp introduced him to Google Ads and ultimately launched a career helping camps grow through digital marketing.

The conversation then turns to one of the biggest opportunities available to nonprofit camps: the Google Ad Grant. Carl explains how eligible 501(c)(3) organizations can receive up to $10,000 per month in free Google advertising, walks through the application process, campaign setup, keyword strategy, and the common mistakes that prevent camps from seeing results. He also shares real examples of camps using the grant to generate more registrations, retreat inquiries, and community engagement, along with his perspective on how AI is changing search and what camp leaders should be doing to stay visible online.

Keywords

Google Ads Grant, nonprofit marketing, camp marketing, retreat center marketing, Google advertising, camp enrollment, nonprofit advertising, digital marketing, summer camps, retreat bookings

Sound Bites

"About fifty percent of the camps I talk to have no idea the grant program exists."

"One of the biggest mistakes camps make is they apply for the grant and then they never do anything else with it."

"The reality is organic listings just continue to get pushed further and further down."

"You could start showing up at the top of Google and not have to pay for the ads."

Hosts

Mark P. Fisher, Inspiring Growth

Carl Lefever, Improve & Grow

Resources

How to Apply for a Google Ads Grant
https://growyourcamppodcast.com/blog/how-to-apply-for-google-ad-grant/

Google for Nonprofits Program Website
https://www.google.com/nonprofits/

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