In this episode of the GoHealth Podcast, Gillian Straine, CEO of GoHealth, steps into a different kind of conversation. Rather than interviewing a guest, Gillian joins organisational consultant Wendy Ball for an honest, searching dialogue about what it means to lead well in a time of deep instability, in the church, in our organisations, and in the world.

Wendy Ball works with impact networks and charities to strengthen their identity, shared vision and partnerships. Her work has been described as being ‘a life coach for organisations’ — accompanying leaders and teams as they give attention to relational culture and strategic intent.

Together, Gillian and Wendy explore:

• The strain and burnout that leaders across sectors are experiencing.
• What ‘sane leadership’ looks like.
• Personal wellbeing rooted in theology.
• The value of good practical systems.
• Gillian’s personal leadership journey.
• The qualities of grounded, resilient leadership — including the courage to ask for help
• Wendy’s vision of ‘lovefare’: organising effectively for connection, justice and the common good.

The full transcript of the podcast can be found here.

People & Resources Mentioned

• Margaret Wheatley — Who Do We Choose to Be? Facing Reality, Claiming Leadership, Restoring Sanity
• Simon Sinek — Start With Why (concept of beginning with purpose)
• Professor Jim McManus — Head of Public Health and Wellbeing for Wales, former President of GoHealth
• Tucker Miller — participatory leadership practitioner; quoted on asking for help as a quality of trustworthy leadership
• Martin Luther King — ‘Those who love peace must learn to organise as effectively as those who love war’
• Wendy Ball’s work — find her via linktr.ee and sign up to her mailing list to learn more about her lovefare work.

About GoHealth

GoHealth is an organization with a vision to enable churches and individual Christians to be a healing presence in the world. The GoHealth Community offers online courses, monthly gatherings, and a supportive space to explore how to connect faith and health.

Connect with GoHealth:

• Join the GoHealth Community
• Join the conversation about vulnerability and impactful leadership

In this deeply moving conversation, Trystan Owain Hughes shares his journey of undertaking a 140-mile pilgrimage across North Wales while living with chronic pain, and the unexpected second pilgrimage that followed when his back injury worsened dramatically. Drawing from his latest book "To Hell's Mouth and Back: Pilgrimage, Suffering, and Hope," Trystan explores how vulnerability in leadership, finding meaning in suffering, and noticing "God winks" in everyday moments can transform our understanding of healing and hope.

Key Topics Discussed

The Physical Pilgrimage

• The Pilgrim's Way: 140 miles across North Wales to Bardsey Island (Ynys Enlli)
• Undertaken eight years after major back surgery (titanium bolt between vertebrae)
• Challenges included knee injury, getting lost, bad weather, and ongoing chronic pain
• Five elements that define pilgrimage: suffering, wonder of nature, friendship, dependence on God and others, and signs from God

• Extreme back pain returned the day after completing the walk
• Spent a month largely confined to a red sofa
• Explores the "pilgrimage mindset" - finding the same sources of hope whether on a 140-mile walk or a 30-yard walk to a lake
• Viktor Frankl's insight: suffering expands to fill whatever space we're in, regardless of size

• The goldfinch as a traditional Christian symbol of healing
• "God winks" - moments when God prompts, directs, or comforts us
• Carl Jung on synchronicity: "People don't see God in their lives because they don't look long enough"
• Scientific backing from neuroscientist Tara Swart and the concept of spiritual intelligence

• The healing shrine of St. Winifred at Holywell
• Remote churches, healing wells, and crosses along the route
• Welsh concepts: Heddwch (outer peace) vs. Tangnefedd (inner peace)
• R.S. Thomas's "confetti moments" - small instances where hope, love, and joy break through

• Why Trystan chose to share his personal story after seven previous books
• The challenge of being defined by disability rather than seen as a whole person
• New criteria for Church in Wales ministry that emphasizes vulnerability and weakness as strengths
• "We don't want Superman in our churches. We want Lois Lane's, Clark Kent's - real people who are vulnerable, open, and compassionate"

Resources Mentioned

Books:

• "To Hell's Mouth and Back: Pilgrimage, Suffering, and Hope" by Trystan Owain Hughes
• "Finding Hope and Meaning in Suffering" by Trystan Owain Hughes

Other references:

• "Man's Search for Meaning" by Viktor Frankl
• "The Signs" by Tara Swart
• Dylan Thomas's "Under Milk Wood"
• Carl Jung's work on synchronicity
• Edith Eger (Holocaust survivor and psychologist)
• David Gray's album "Life in Slow Motion"

About GoHealth

GoHealth is an organization with a vision to enable churches and individual Christians to be a healing presence in the world. The GoHealth Community offers online courses, monthly gatherings, and a supportive space to explore how to connect faith and health.

Connect with GoHealth:

• Join the GoHealth Community
• Join the conversation about vulnerability and impactful leadership

• Bishop Sarah’s reflections on saying “yes” to the call to be Archbishop of Cantebury and discerning vocation.
• How her nursing background shapes her ministry and leadership style.
• The importance of holistic health and rhythms of wellbeing for clergy and leaders.
• Servant leadership in practice—and its challenges in a culture of power.
• Cultural change in safeguarding and creating safe spaces in the church.
• Practical ways churches can engage in social prescribing and community health.
• Bishop Sarah’s hopes for the church and the nation as she steps into her new role.