In this episode of Giant Talk, James and Roger discuss leadership strategies with Dave Joyce, CEO of Macrium. The conversation explores the importance of creating a self-sufficient leadership team, the vision for making the workplace irresistible, and the integration of OKRs into the company's operating system. The conversation explores the implementation of the OKR framework and its impact on organisational alignment and change management. It highlights the importance of connecting purpose and values, identifying growth opportunities, and the sources of inspiration that drive leadership development.

You can find out more about Macrium at https://www.macrium.com/our-story

Takeaways

• Focus on leadership autonomy
• Creating an irresistible workplace OKR framework enhances alignment
• Change management requires clear purpose

Chapters

• 00:00 Expanding the Podcast's Focus
• 01:42 Introducing Dave Joyce
• 02:21 Dave's Background and Experience
• 04:44 Vision for Leadership Redundancy
• 07:21 Evolving Leadership Roles
• 09:39 Building a Self-Sufficient Team
• 12:16 Creating an Irresistible Workplace
• 15:30 Defining the Operating System
• 18:58 Integrating OKRs into Strategy
• 23:12 Transforming Strategy into Action
• 27:05 Navigating Change and Resistance
• 31:00 Connecting Purpose and Values
• 32:26 Identifying Opportunities for Growth
• 34:45 Envisioning Future Success
• 40:34 Sources of Inspiration and Learning

The conversation covers the expansion of the Giant Talk Podcast, the introduction of a new guest in the OKR software market, Stephen's entrepreneurial journey with OKRs, the ROI of OKRs and research reports, the impact of leadership on OKRs, the quality of decision makingThe conversation covers the expansion of the Giant Talk Podcast, the introduction of a new guest in the OKR software market, Stephen's entrepreneurial journey with OKRs, the ROI of OKRs and research reports, the impact of leadership on OKRs, the quality of decision making and OKRs, and the realized and unrealized value of OKRs. It also delves into the challenges of leadership and OKRs, providing insights into the strategic alignment and operational aspects of OKRs. The conversation delves into the importance of leadership buy-in and role modeling for OKRs, the perfect OKR cycle, accountability, transparency, culture and change management, AI's role in OKRs beyond writing objectives, its application in risk management and forecasting, limitations in lack of context and collaboration, leadership's role in AI and OKRs, common misconceptions about OKRs, scoring and progress, the binary approach to OKRs, invisible key results, leadership oversight, and the future of OKRs.

Takeaways

• OKRs and Strategy
• Leadership and OKRs Leadership buy-in is crucial
• AI's role in OKRs is more than just writing objectives

You can check out Stevens great OKR platform a research at https://www.okrstool.com/

https://therebegiants.com/ - helping leadership teams align on what matters most, getting the whole business working together and turning strategy into measurable results.

https://momentus.uk.com/ - Learning and Development for Businesses Committed to People and Performance

“Values plus behaviours times consistency equals culture.”

Roger and James speak with Chris Wisely about how Atlas grew from a small cleaning business into a £400 million, 15,000-person employee-owned business. The conversation focuses on what changed as the company scaled, why culture and performance must stay linked, and how Atlas is keeping decision-making fast while adding more structure. Chris also shares the acquisition journey that reshaped the business, including the Emprise deal, the COVID-era pivot into protection services, and the move into hard services and Total Facilities Management. Alongside the business story, he opens up about the personal experiences that shaped his leadership and resilience.

Key topics

• Atlas began in 1986 as a small cleaning business in Mayfair and grew through entrepreneurship and acquisitions.
• The Emprise acquisition brought larger contracts, new sectors, and a stronger platform for organic and acquisitive growth.
• During COVID, Atlas launched Atlas VPS and rapidly mobilised cleaners for HMCTS work.
• Multiple acquisitions in 2022 and 2024 created significant integration challenges across finance, HR, and back-office systems.
• Chris explains how his leadership role shifted from hands-on problem-solving to creating the conditions for success.
• Atlas treats culture as a commercial asset, with its purpose defined as “creating happiness for ourselves and others.”
• The company uses the formula “values plus behaviours times consistency equals culture.”
• The Atlas Way and a judo belt framework help people understand cultural maturity and personal responsibility.
• Atlas focuses on health, wellbeing, communication, clarity, performance, developing people, and making it easy.
• Role frameworks, performance frameworks, and regular work chats provide greater clarity than traditional annual appraisals.
• Employee ownership has strengthened accountability, belonging, and pride across the organisation.
• Chris discusses resilience, frontline learning, and the leaders, books, and podcasts that have influenced him.
• He shares advice for founders and CEOs: build culture and clarity before pursuing sustainable growth.

Timestamps

00:00 - Giant Talk’s new direction beyond OKRs
00:40 - Introducing Chris Wisely and Atlas
02:18 - Atlas begins as a small Mayfair cleaning business
04:06 - The Emprise acquisition changes the business
05:31 - COVID and the launch of Atlas VPS
06:25 - Mobilising 200 cleaners for HMCTS
07:48 - Protecting jobs and funding future acquisitions
08:18 - Expansion into hard services and TFM
10:06 - Atlas grows from £35 million to over £400 million
11:36 - How Chris’s leadership focus changed
13:58 - Building a stronger, not just bigger, business
16:19 - The relationship between culture and performance
18:37 - Making values a lived experience
20:57 - Acquiring people, not just contracts
22:22 - Atlas’s purpose: creating happiness
24:24 - The Atlas Way and shared cultural responsibility
25:14 - The judo belt model for cultural maturity
30:06 - Conditions for success and the importance of clarity
32:01 - Business, role, and performance frameworks
34:20 - Intent and context versus rigid instruction
37:40 - Avoiding bureaucracy as Atlas grows
39:57 - The impact of employee ownership
42:43 - Chris’s personal leadership journey
46:24 - Learning from frontline teams
48:14 - The monthly happiness survey
50:51 - Advice for founders and CEOs
53:06 - The return on investing in clarity
54:04 - Closing remarks and how to contact Chris