What if the life you’re longing for isn’t somewhere out there waiting for you, but hidden inside the life you already have?

Poet, songwriter, author, and community builder Joshua Luke Smith joins me for a conversation about suffering, limitation, freedom, creativity, and learning to find God in the life that’s actually in front of us.

Joshua shares what more than a decade of working with incarcerated men has taught him about belonging, prayer, and the strange freedom that can emerge inside limitation. We talk about writing Psalms in prison, his own journey through grief and addiction, and the idea behind his new book, This Is the Main Event: that we spend so much of our lives waiting for something else to finally begin, when God may already be present in the ordinary, painful, beautiful life we have now.

We also explore why grief may be the doorway back into a fully lived life, why numbing our pain inevitably numbs our joy, and how meaningful lives require risk, responsibility, friendship, and burdens worth carrying.

IN THIS CONVERSATION

• What writing Psalms with incarcerated men reveals about suffering, confession, and belonging
• Why the life you long for may be hidden in the life you already have
• Finding liberation through limitation instead of endlessly trying to escape it
• Why grief is often the doorway back into your actual life
• How anesthetizing sorrow can also anesthetize joy, passion, and wonder
• The difference between freedom as unlimited choice and freedom found through a worthy burden
• Why some of the most meaningful things in life, friendship, art, children, feasting, can also seem “unnecessary”
• How suffering can produce endurance, character, and ultimately hope

ABOUT JOSHUA LUKE SMITH

Joshua Luke Smith is a poet, songwriter, author, and community builder whose work explores faith, creativity, belonging, and what it means to live a fully human life. He is the founder of Orphan No More and The Psalmists, a charity working with incarcerated men through creative expression and spiritual formation. Through poetry workshops rooted in the Psalms, Joshua helps men find language for lament, repentance, hope, and life beyond suffering. His latest book, This Is the Main Event, explores the invitation to stop escaping our lives and discover the sacred hidden within them.

RESOURCES

This Is the Main Event — Joshua Luke Smith
Joshua’s book about learning to inhabit the life you already have.
Buy This Is the Main Event

The Psalmists — Joshua Luke Smith
Joshua’s work with incarcerated men using poetry, the Psalms, creative expression, and spiritual formation.

Orphan No More — Joshua Luke Smith
The wider creative community and organization founded by Joshua.

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Or text +1 (704) 286-1171

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Conversations about the search for meaning in modern life through the lens of Christian spirituality. Exploring the deeper longings beneath the surface of faith, art, culture, and the stories that shape the way we see the world. Hosted by artist and author John Mark McMillan.

New episodes every other Tuesday starting September 1st, 2026.

Have you ever stopped to wonder how we've built a world our great-great-grandparents would have mistaken for magic, and yet we find ourselves more anxious than ever, more isolated, and less satisfied?

That question is at the heart of a brand new podcast.

John Mark McMillan is asking whether we've started expecting science to answer questions it was never designed to answer. Science can teach us how the world works and help us live longer, but can it tell us why all this surviving was ever a good idea in the first place?

He believes the deepest longings are spiritual ones, and wonders if our ancestors, despite knowing far less about how the world worked, may have understood things we've forgotten. As a Christian and as a human being living in the 2020s, John Mark wants to spend more time asking those spiritual questions.

That's exactly what "Flirting with Enchantment" is built for. It's a podcast exploring big questions about meaning-making and the deeper desires of the human heart, through the lens of Christian spirituality.

If the big questions keep you up at night, this is the show for you. Subscribe to "Flirting with Enchantment" wherever you listen to podcasts. New episodes drop every other Tuesday.

CONNECT

Text Me - Join the SMS list for occasional thoughts, recommendations, and new work.
https://my.community.com/johnmarkmcmillan
Or text +1 (704) 286-1171

Patreon - Bonus conversations, extended episodes, and more from Flirting with Enchantment.
https://www.patreon.com/c/johnmarkmcmillan