In this conversation, Ebe sits down with Dr Tracy Woodroffe, a Warumungu Luritja senior lecturer at Charles Darwin University, to talk about what it really means to embed Indigenous knowledge in Australian universities - and why our current approaches keep falling short.

Tracy shares her journey from childhood, to teacher, to academic, explaining why Indigenous perspectives can only be owned and delivered by Indigenous people, and what happens when non-Indigenous academics try to speak for communities they're not part of. They discuss the exhaustion of being tokenised as "the Indigenous expert", and the glass ceilings that persist even in supposedly progressive institutions.

The conversation also explores parallels between Indigenous and disability communities' experiences of tokenism, the difference between genuine partnership and performative allyship, and what it would look like if universities actually structured themselves to centre Indigenous knowledge rather than treating it as a weekly add-on.

Links mentioned:

• Tracy's publications and work in pedagogy, education, and leadership: https://researchers.cdu.edu.au/en/persons/tracy-ann-woodroffe
• Tracy's paper on work-like balance and managing identity: https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-981-97-2823-7_6

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Produced on the traditional lands of the Ngunnawal and Ngambri peoples.