Host Wenchi Yu speaks with filmmaker Hao Wu about his latest documentary, TikTok Never Dies, which recently premiered at the Tribeca Festival. Hao chronicles the legal fight between TikTok and the U.S. government — a case many expected the Supreme Court to decide on national security grounds. What he ended up capturing was a story about three American content creators caught in the middle, a presidential election TikTok helped shape, a sudden shutdown and save, and a debate that reveals as much about America's anxieties as it does about China.

For more about TikTok Never Dies: www.tiktokneverdies.com

00:00 Introduction to Hao Wu and his filmmaking journey

02:58 The origin of 'TikTok Never Dies' and Wu's fascination with TikTok

04:49 The US legislation targeting TikTok and the lawsuit

06:42 The focus on content creators and personal stakes in the lawsuit

08:53 Public perception of TikTok and the national security debate

10:55 The American story versus the China story in Wu's film

12:54 The evidence and public trust in US government claims

14:55 The influence of Trump and the 2024 election on TikTok policies

16:36 Balancing risks and impacts of banning TikTok

18:36 The future of US-China relations and social media influence

20:35 Wu's previous films and their thematic connections

22:57 The role of AI in entertainment and filmmaking

24:40 The business model of documentary filmmaking and AI's impact

26:52 The rise of Chinese short-form dramas and their global influence

28:46 The broader implications for US-China relations and technology

30:43 Current screening and access to 'TikTok Never Dies'

Perspectives with Wenchi Yu

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