In this episode, I sit down with attorney, mediator, facilitator, and peacemaker Andy Kull to explore what becomes possible when lawyers move beyond purely adversarial ways of thinking.

Listen to learn more about Andy's journey from commercial litigator to peacemaker, Together, we explore the distinction between adversarial and relational thinking, why so many lawyers experience burnout, and how the legal system teaches us to listen to respond instead of listening to understand.

We also discuss the "art of peacemaking" and Andy's powerful principle of being tough on the issue while remaining gentle on the person.

Whether you're a lawyer, mediator, leader, or someone navigating conflict in your own life, this conversation offers a thoughtful exploration of how understanding, curiosity, and human connection can transform the way we approach disagreement.

• Why Andy left traditional litigation after 15 years;
• Adversarial vs. relational thinking;
• The connection between conflict, stress, and nervous system regulation;
• The cost of being trained to only listen to respond instead of gaining understanding;
• Why peacemaking is an art;
• What it means to be "Tough on the issue, gentle on the person";
• Burnout, happiness, and the limits of the thinking mind; and
• What becomes possible when lawyers see themselves as healers of human conflict.